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Thread: Islamists Targeting Christians ‘Wherever They Can Reach Them’

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    PeteS in CA's Avatar
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    Islamists Targeting Christians ‘Wherever They Can Reach Them’

    Islamists Targeting Christians ‘Wherever They Can Reach Them’
    December 3, 2010 - by Raymond Ibrahim
    Pajamas Media
    In 2006, when Pope Benedict quoted history deemed unflattering to Islam, Christians around the Muslim world paid the price: anti-Christian riots ensued, churches were burned, and a nun was murdered in Somalia. That was then. Days ago, when a Christian in Egypt was accused of dating a Muslim woman, twenty-two Christian homes were set ablaze, to cries of “Allah Akbar.” Countless other examples of one group of Christians in the Muslim world being “punished” in response to other Christians exist.

    In fact, the recent carnage in Baghdad, wherein Islamists stormed a church during mass, killing over fifty Christian worshippers, was a “response” to Egypt’s Coptic Christian church, which Islamists accuse of kidnapping and torturing Muslim women to convert to Christianity. ... And the al-Qaeda affiliated Islamists who perpetrated the Baghdad church massacre have further threatened Christians around the world:
    All Christian centres, organisations and institutions, leaders and followers, are legitimate targets for the mujahedeen (holy warriors) wherever they can reach them.”… Let these idolaters [Christians of the world], and at their forefront, the hallucinating tyrant of the Vatican [Pope Benedict], know that the killing sword will not be lifted from the necks of their followers until they declare their innocence from what the dog of the Egyptian Church is doing.
    If "moderate Muslims" really exist in any quantity, if the likes of A-Q have really "hijacked" Islam, when are they going to stand up, speak out and act against the supposed extremist hijackers?! I know that the majority, probably vast majority, of Muslims are not bomb-tossers and head-hackers. I suspect, however, that the majority of that majority are either too into their lives to really care or are willing to take a sliver of the spoils the A-Q types win, not intimidated into silence and inaction.
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    Seravee's Avatar
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    Quite personally if this country lived in the fear of the KKK like they do with A-Q I would not want to speak out agianst them either. If they were to speak out they not only put their life in risk but their entire family. If it came down to it I would keep my mouth shut to until a time came where they are not so much a threat as I can speak out. They are not like us. The bigots and racist groups we have in America are like boy scouts compared to the terrorist groups over there so it is easy for us to just sit here and tell them to "speak out" when for them it is not so simple.
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    PeteS in CA's Avatar
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    OK, suppose for the sake of argument that I'm an arm-chair simpleton-critic. Using your analogy, it was individuals - black and white - who turned the tables on the KKK; the government eventually added its muscle, but it was very much a reluctant late-comer. The same was true about ending slavery in the US and the British Empire. The Western governments who care about eliminating A-Q, et al, are well removed from the Islamic areas of Asia and Africa, and are resented/hated by many of the people and governments of that area. So, who/what changes A-Q, et al? Slavery and racism festered in the US for 3 or 4 centuries, and it took a war in which 2/3 of a million soldiers died (and even more were maimed) and much misery to end slavery and banish racism to social and geographic obscurity. I've read the Qur'an - I'm not steeped in it - and the attitudes of A-Q and less violent extreme Muslims are, historically and Qur'anically, in the mainstream of Islam - nearly 14 (!!!) centuries. What will it take, where are the MLKs, who are the only ones who can possibly bring change to that part of the world and Islam?

    Asking people to respect others while disagreeing with them may be simple, but it isn't simplistic!
    Last edited by PeteS in CA; 12-05-2010 at 04:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
    OK, suppose for the sake of argument that I'm an arm-chair simpleton-critic. Using your analogy, it was individuals - black and white - who turned the tables on the KKK; the government eventually added its muscle, but it was very much a reluctant late-comer. The same was true about ending slavery in the US and the British Empire. The Western governments who care about eliminating A-Q, et al, are well removed from the Islamic areas of Asia and Africa, and are resented/hated by many of the people and governments of that area. So, who/what changes A-Q, et al? Slavery and racism festered in the US for 3 or 4 centuries, and it took a war in which 2/3 of a million soldiers died (and even more were maimed) and much misery to end slavery and banish racism to social and geographic obscurity. I've read the Qur'an - I'm not steeped in it - and the attitudes of A-Q and less violent extreme Muslims are, historically and Qur'anically, in the mainstream of Islam - nearly 14 (!!!) centuries. What will it take, where are the MLKs, who are the only ones who can possibly bring change to that part pof the world and Islam?

    Asking people to respect others while disagreeing with them may be simple, but it isn't simplistic!
    The Governments over there don't want to stop them becasue they too fear them. As for their "MLKs" the last one I saw that could have did something great for one of the ME countries was that woman in Iran that was assassinated. That is what happens to those that speak out. They are silenced. It probably will take a similar war to get rid of the terrorist over there like it did ending slavery here. But it will be a long one. Their(and our) enemy does not fight in the open but fights like cowards. That kind of enemy has to be fought on equal terms and that is where the CIA and such comes in.
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    RET423's Avatar
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    I am tired of the "fear" excuse.

    If any people are too afraid to stand up against those who are condemning an entire religious faith by their actions then those "worshipers" don't care much about their faith or their god so why should anyone else?

    If the numbers of extremist Terrorist's are so great in a faith that the non violent members live in a state of terror causing them to keep silent why should anyone else respect their faith?

    I fail to see the logic in calling for all of us to respect Islam for the sake of the "peaceful majority" when that "peaceful majority" does not respect their own faith enough to stand up for it.

    Respect is earned, using fear as an excuse to tolerate murder and atrocities against the innocent is not a course worthy of respect and none should be given.
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    I "get" that there is danger in standing up for what one believes. Not a few blacks and whites were killed for their work in the Civil Rights Movement; MLK didn't die a natural death. They didn't seek death, but accepted it as a possibility in seeking freedom for themselves, their children and their fellow men.

    IF the majority of Muslims really are peaceful and IF the majority of Muslims feel their religion has been hijacked by the A-Q types and other extremists, what will it take for them to take their religion back? How many mosques will have to be blown up as not sufficiently Muslim? How many men, women and children enslaved, brutalized and slaughtered?RET asks a reasonable question. Do they really believe in their religion? And I have a related question. Do a significant number of Muslims really believe their religion has been hijacked? There is a mosque within 3 or 4 miles of my home, so these questions are more than idle curiosity.
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    It's easy for people to dismiss violent Muslims as a small minority, BUT then there are these stories;
    August 3, 2008

    Persuading Western Muslim leaders to repudiate Shari'a-sanctioned violence against apostates can be a frustrating exercise, as Prince Charles discovered in 2004.

    Troubled by the treatment of Muslims who convert to Christianity in Islamic nations, the prince convened a summit of senior figures from both religious communities. It ended in disappointment.

    The Islamic representatives failed to issue a declaration condemning the practice, which the Christians had requested; they also cautioned non-Muslims not to discuss such matters in public, arguing that moderates would be more likely to make progress if the debate were kept internal.

    Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, the outspoken Anglican prelate of Rochester, attended the meeting but rejected their advice. While continuing to highlight the perils faced by those who leave Islam in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran, he now has turned his focus to the harassment of apostates in the West.

    Last year the bishop warned that a convert could die in Britain unless prominent Muslims affirm the right of all people to change their faith.

    There have been few takers, despite the dire need for this message: a poll indicates that 36% of younger British Muslims believe death to be an appropriate punishment for renouncing Islam.

    Their views are grounded in Shari'a law.

    All major schools of Islamic jurisprudence stipulate that a sane adult male must be put to death for abandoning Islam, though varying interpretations persist on whether females should be killed or merely imprisoned.

    Fear Stalks Muslim Apostates in the West | Fighting Radical Islam
    And a United States Judge wants to permit Shari'a law ???????????????


    .
    Last edited by Bucks; 12-07-2010 at 08:13 PM.
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    Jack Hectormann's Avatar
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    One of the main reasons American liberals/moderates continually make excuses for "mostly peaceful Islam" is because they have been brainwashed by decades of liberal multiculturalist indoctrination and outright lies. And they swallowed it whole.

    Their liberal flesh is not at risk.
    But there is another reason too. They and their family and friends are NOT regularly having their hands and heads chopped off or being blowed up with bombs. They live in safety here in America and can well afford to preach their liberal/moderate doctrines of "justice" and "fairness" in a multicultural context. They personally pay zero price for their liberal-based high and lofty moralizing about "justice" and "fairness."

    Liberals/Moderates Are Not Really Morally Superior.
    These liberals/moderates think themselves morally superior in rejecting the doctrine of Collective Guilt, IE their liberal-mindset refusal to hold the whole Islamic religion accountable for what a significient Islamic minority is doing. But I submit the notion that if it was their liberal/moderate flesh and the flesh of their family and friends that was being regularly dismembered and killed, as is happening in far away lands, then these same liberals/moderates would sing a totally different tune.

    They'd Be Singing Like Canary Birds.
    All of a sudden we would hear them singing out in support of the doctrine of Collective Guilt as they regularly hauled themselves and their family and friends to the Emergency Room to be sewed back together, and then about once a week attended funerals of their family and friends.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Jack Hectormann; 12-07-2010 at 08:48 PM.

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