ObamaCare Speech

[Susanna]

I just can't imagine Obama doing anything that sensible.

[kiwispragg]

*** LONG REPLY WARNING ***


This might take some time to build so I apologize if I repeat what anyone else says


I'm sorry but when did the Public Option become an existing system? The rules and items outlined in HR3200 specifically identify a completely new beaurocratic system that will rule over the insurance industry and create a behemoth that could rival the IRS in it's complexity and personal invasiveness.

It will have the ability to tap your bank account directly (page 59) and can NOT be sued (page 124).



I love mincing words (not). If you want to keep your health care the way it is TODAY the statement is true. If you want to upgrade coverage in the future with the same insurer, good luck based on section 102 of HR3200.



Yup, and no change in coverage costs and less money for hospitals and doctors as the cost of the unfunded mandates continues to rise. Great plan, Mr. President - would you care to take a whack at unemployment too?



This isn't a lie but it's scary as hell for me - because if this passes I stand a good chance of loosing my job! I work for a company that manages the exact thing that he's talking about - a Professional Employer Organization. We lump our clients employees together and go to the insurance companies to get lower rates. You can do this through your local chamber as well.

Problem is, we make money (a pittance per employee per year) to do it. Thanks, I didn't need my job any way.



Again, not a lie but an absolutely mind-boggling truth. HR3200 mandates FINES (not tax penalties) for companies that don't offer health care if they break a certain gross wage threshhold (Page 149). It also FINES individuals if they don't have the "appropriate levels of care" (page 167).



While they're not going to start practicing euthanasia right away, the mandatory end-of-life counselling outlined on Page 465 leaves a lot open to the imagination.



Pure, utter bull-feces. It has already been stated that the bill will provide federal funding to Planned Parenthood. PP provides and supports abortions.


Really? want to sell me a car next?



Am I the only one who finds these two sentences contradictory?

Actually, he follows it with this:



Two words for you here, kiddos: "For Now"

Once the beast is created, all it takes is another legislative group (or even the same one) to ammend the language of the bill to change that. Hell, it could get ammended before it gets signed initially!

The rest is pap and pomp. I've gone over what I find wrong with this bill, this administration and this congress enough.

Thanks for going to so much effort in that post, although there is one problem, there is not one single outright lie which you have exposed and backed up with evidence. That is the only thing you forgot, which happens to be the most important thing

[kiwispragg]

I watched as much as I could before my stomach couldn't take it anymore.

In a word his speech was DIVISIVE.

And yes, Congressman Joe Wilson (R-SC), Obama DID LIE.


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Please elaborate on how the speech was divisive and then provide proof of where obama lied, backed up with evidence ofcourse

[Sunsettommy]

Wanna know when someone's opinion on the issue counts for diddly squat? When they state that they know it's garbage, but begin the sentence with 'i never read it'. What a joke

LOL,

I see that you live in New Zealand.

I have read and heard what he stated enough times,to know that he is full of lies and distortions.When people are consistently that way,they are no longer worth any given respect,for what they believe and do.

By the way my suspicion was confirmed,when his speech was indeed garbage,just as I correctly thought,BASED ON PAST EXPERIENCE!

[Sunsettommy]

Well the floor is yours. I would like you to outline the specific lies told by obama in this speech, and obviously back them up with evidence.

LOL,

It is obvious that you neither read or heard his speech.

[Sunsettommy]

there is not one single outright lie

We claimed he lies,you make a qualifier at what LEVEL,that his lies falls in.

Were there some "white" lies in the speech then?

[Rightwing Nutjob]

Bold is The Messiah. Regular italics are Dave.

Everyone understands the extraordinary hardships that are placed on the uninsured, who live every day just one accident or illness away from bankruptcy.

Everyone lives just one accident or illness away from death, and no healthcare system or law is going to prevent this.

Very valid point. Even with insurance AND the hospital's program for income-challenged folks, I am still paying for a major surgery three years later. Such things shouldn't be in the most prosperous nation on Earth.

You're still paying for your house after how long? What is wrong with having to pay for the services you use? Or do you really believe you have a special right to other people's lives to pay for your healthcare?

I would like to see documentation on this figure; I have seen it placed as high as 75 million and as low as under 10 million. Whatever it is, it does need to be addressed.

No it doesn't. Would you believe some folks would rather have cash than health insurance, so they don't buy health insurance or they opt out of company insurance? I personally know folks like this.

and why American businesses that compete internationally -- like our automakers -- are at a huge disadvantage.

Another valid point, but for an entirely different reason. Foreign automakers build cars in third-world countries where they can get away with starvation wages and no benefits; little more than legal slavery. The UAW auto worker enjoys a very high standard of living, but that's a topic for another thread.

Some number of the foreign vehicles we buy are built here, competing in our economy. And The Messiah needs to consider overall compensation packages on foreign shores, as you suggest.

And it's why those of us with health insurance are also paying a hidden and growing tax for those without it -- about $1,000 per year that pays for somebody else's emergency room and charitable care.

I wonder how much of that $1000 is in the form of higher emergency room costs and how much is voluntary donations to charitable organizations.

Well, withdraw mandatory treatment requirements, and it'll be charitable care only. Of course, if you can't handle the costs that creates, you can always switch to a lean competitor that doesn't give.

There are those on the left who believe that the only way to fix the system is through a single-payer system like Canada's -- (applause) -- where we would severely restrict the private insurance market and have the government provide coverage for everybody. On the right, there are those who argue that we should end employer-based systems and leave individuals to buy health insurance on their own.

I've said -- I have to say that there are arguments to be made for both these approaches.

I fully agree. Single payer WOULD simplify health care for both providers and patients and ending employer-based systems could possibly encourage people to take a more active role in their health care. Both have valid points in their favor.

I have to say, both of those arguments are sick and twisted. Who are you to get between agreements between me and my employer, Mr. Obama?

What this plan will do is make the insurance you have work better for you. Under this plan, it will be against the law for insurance companies to deny you coverage because of a preexisting condition.

OUT-STANDING! My Aunt was caught up in this; lost her job and couldn't get insurance due to hypertension and a VERY weak left knee that precluded exercise.

Oh, so get sick and then go get insurance when you become an actual liability to the insurance company -- without ever paying into the system. That's like passing a law against smoking today, and arresting me tomorrow for the cigarette I had yesterday. This is fiscally unsound and will lead to ruin.

They will no longer be able to place some arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you can receive in a given year or in a lifetime. (Applause.) We will place a limit on how much you can be charged for out-of-pocket expenses, because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they get sick. (Applause.)

More good ideas.

They don't limit you. You essentially enter a contract with the insurance companies. If you don't like the coverage one offers, go to another provider.

And insurance companies will be required to cover, with no extra charge, routine checkups and preventive care, like mammograms and colonoscopies -- (applause) -- because there's no reason we shouldn't be catching diseases like breast cancer and colon cancer before they get worse. That makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives. (Applause.)

I believe Governor Huckabee's Surgeon General or another high level medical advisor was quoted in one of his books as being in favor of this (which Gov. H is as well), expressed the way things are, paying for corrective measures adn not preventative measures, as being like killing rattlesnakes but not going after the nests they live in.

This concept is correct, and an insurance company that gets this stands to compete well, possibly by reducing long-run costs but most importantly by helping its customers stay healthy and productive, able to pay premiums longer -- at least if this assumption is actually true.

But the government is in the way, and it wants to be in the way. We are misdirected from the real solution to health market issues, all so an authoritarian can grab complete control of an already largely public system.

And that's why under my plan, individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance

I have never liked mandatory insurance laws without corresponding government oversight over the insurance industry. IMHO this could enable even more gouging than is already the case.

As I said above, some would rather keep their cash than purchase healthcare. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?

[Susanna]

"Preventive health care" is not all that necessary. For example, how many woman have mammograms who never get cancer? How many people have their blood pressure taken who never have hyper/hypotension? How many people have blood work done that shows no irregularities? Or at least, irregularities in one or two areas of the many that are tested? All these (and other) "preventive health care" measures add up to a lot of money. My doctor keeps suggesting (thank God he just suggests, he doesn't pressure) many different tests for me. I finally succumbed to one, but only because I had reason to believe there was a problem in that area. I don't do flu shots.

[samspade]

Thanks for going to so much effort in that post, although there is one problem, there is not one single outright lie which you have exposed and backed up with evidence. That is the only thing you forgot, which happens to be the most important thing

I believed you just proved my point. Someone came up with answers and yet you called him a liar. I would not have bothered.

[Bucks]

Please elaborate on how the speech was divisive and then provide proof of where obama lied, backed up with evidence ofcourse

See post #8.

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