My Problem With The Right

[mtemptyspace2008]

Originally Posted by Susanna

We surrendered to Cuba at the Bay of Pigs. The missile issue was a compromise.

I didn't understand what he meant by the "surrender". From what I thought it was a separate incident. I will look into the history of the "Bay of Pigs".

Thanks, cyberspace mom

[Susanna]

Originally Posted by mtemptyspace2008

I didn't understand what he meant by the "surrender". From what I thought it was a separate incident. I will look into the history of the "Bay of Pigs".

Thanks, cyberspace mom

I don't know whether you can find an accurate report on the internet or not; when it was taught in the public schools when my kids were growing up, they got a false story. Of course, people were still trying to make JFK look good, so maybe there are some accurate stories. In any case, I remember it. I really set my daughter straight when she came home from school and told us about it, and said that "the air cover didn't get there in time." I'm afraid I really jumped on to her about that (I think she knew I wasn't angry with her), and I informed her in no uncertain terms that the air cover was recalled. We were going to give air cover to a bunch of Cubans who were plotting the downfall of Castro, and they were waiting for it when Castro's people fell upon them and massacred them. Meanwhile, JFK's advisors had told him he had made a big mistake, so he recalled the air cover, leaving the Cubans completely vulnerable to whatever Castro chose for them.

[Dacabeti]

Originally Posted by Susanna

I don't know whether you can find an accurate report on the internet or not; when it was taught in the public schools when my kids were growing up, they got a false story. Of course, people were still trying to make JFK look good, so maybe there are some accurate stories. In any case, I remember it. I really set my daughter straight when she came home from school and told us about it, and said that "the air cover didn't get there in time." I'm afraid I really jumped on to her about that (I think she knew I wasn't angry with her), and I informed her in no uncertain terms that the air cover was recalled. We were going to give air cover to a bunch of Cubans who were plotting the downfall of Castro, and they were waiting for it when Castro's people fell upon them and massacred them. Meanwhile, JFK's advisors had told him he had made a big mistake, so he recalled the air cover, leaving the Cubans completely vulnerable to whatever Castro chose for them.

There was 3 Special Forces teams on the ground in Cuba during the Bay of Pigs. 4 men made it out alive.

[Susanna]

Originally Posted by Dacabeti

There was 3 Special Forces teams on the ground in Cuba during the Bay of Pigs. 4 men made it out alive.

Thanks for that detail. I either didn't know it, or didn't remember it. I do remember that there was a massacre.

[Fantasy Chaser]

Originally Posted by mtemptyspace2008

In the JFK administration, we did not surrender to Cuba. In my recollection, our airforce found nuclear missles from camera's on the ground in Cuba. The Russians had been planting them there. Here is what I found on this.

part taken by Rit Nosotro:

To maintain detente (power balance), Russia asked Fidel Castro, the leader of Cuba, if they could move their missiles into his country. Castro, who had recently fought off an invasion of the U.S. at the Bay of Pigs, heartily agreed. When the U.S. confirmed this through high altitude U2 spy plane photos, they immediately surrounded Cuba with a Naval Blockade. If one of the U.S. ships saw a Russian ship, the U.S. would warn that Russian ship by shooting across their bow. If the Russian ship didn’t stop after three warnings, the U.S. would shoot the Russian ship. Although hawkish advisors pushed President Kennedy into brinkmanship, others realized this plan could rapidly escalate into a nuclear war. The Russian Premier, Nikita Khrushchev, also realized this but he did not want to back down and appear weak in front of his cabinet. Just before the Russian fleet arrived to counter the US blockade, Kennedy contacted Khrushchev and told him, “If you move all your missiles out of Cuba, we will break the blockade and not invade Cuba.” Khrushchev agreed. The U.S. removed the blockade and Russia poled their missiles out of Cuba. People say that this is the closest the world has come to a nuclear war.

So can you explain what you meant by JFK surrendering to Cuba?

Actually, that was the version for public consumption. The reality is that JFK cut a deal that in exchange for them not putting missiles in Cuba, we wouldn't put missiles in Turkey.

[JBG]

Originally Posted by mtemptyspace2008

So can you explain what you meant by JFK surrendering to Cuba?

The concommitant agreement to remove missiles from Turkey (link) after a long-enough interval so it wouldn't look like the surrender it was.

[mtemptyspace2008]

Originally Posted by Fantasy Chaser

Actually, that was the version for public consumption. The reality is that JFK cut a deal that in exchange for them not putting missiles in Cuba, we wouldn't put missiles in Turkey.

Thanks for the clarification FC. Oh and thank you to JBG for the link.

[wolfluver2]

One of the options seriously debated by JFK and the military at the time was an invasion of Cuba. That option was taken off the table in lieu of the Cuba/Turkey missile swap.
Only thirty years later did Russia reveal that in addition to the multiple mobile tactical nukes there were already 40,000 fully armed Russian troops in place awaiting the expected American invasion. The US did not have that intel or at least there is no record listing knowledge by the US military of this number of Russian troops.
Khrushchev had also pre-authorized the launch of all Cuban nukes in response to any level of invasion by US forces.
Was quite a month.....

[JBG]

Originally Posted by mtemptyspace2008

Thanks for the clarification FC. Oh and thank you to JBG for the link.

You are welcome. I may be unique in my view that JFK was basically an "all talk, no action" spoiled, rich kid.

[Tool]

Originally Posted by JBG

You are welcome. I may be unique in my view that JFK was basically an "all talk, no action" spoiled, rich kid.

That's better than Bush who can't talk, is spoiled and thinks action involves third-grade lego sets.

[Bucks]

Originally Posted by Tool

That's better than Bush who can't talk, is spoiled and thinks action involves third-grade lego sets.

TROLL ALERT
.

[JBG]

Originally Posted by Tool

That's better than Bush who can't talk, is spoiled and thinks action involves third-grade lego sets.

Second the troll alert (his other two posts):

Originally Posted by Tool

I just hope she can break this twenty.

Originally Posted by Tool

Poor baby. Defeat won't feel any better in November either.

[smichellen]

JBG,
You're not kicked out of places like Dailykos for being toooo far left.
You're kicked off there for thinking for yourself and often times even with clarity. That freaks them out. A Dem with half a brain?!
That's meant as a compliment. Don't read anything else into it.

And, liberal moonbat dems couldn't spot a troll here if it stepped on their nose. So, you are not a liberal moonbat dem.
I am sure you and I would disagree on plenty of issues since you are proud of the dem party and I am a card carrying member of the "vast right wing conspiracy". Moonbat you are not. At least you aren't showing that side of yourself.

[smichellen]

Originally Posted by Fantasy Chaser

Actually, that was the version for public consumption. The reality is that JFK cut a deal that in exchange for them not putting missiles in Cuba, we wouldn't put missiles in Turkey.

True. I don't know much at all about our Cuba/Russia crisis. I have always thought (from info I have heard) that JFK let Russia bully us. Also, Castro.
And, now we all see how that has turned out for the poor people of those countries. And, now we have more spinless liberals crying out to kiss the hand of people like Castro. ewwwww. It's digusting how truth gets lost and twisted. So much so that we now have some proclaiming the great Cuban health system!

[JBG]

Originally Posted by smichellen

JBG,
You're not kicked out of places like Dailykos for being toooo far left.
You're kicked off there for thinking for yourself and often times even with clarity. That freaks them out. A Dem with half a brain?!
That's meant as a compliment. Don't read anything else into it.

I appreciate compliments. And I appreciate credit for "half a brain" though it's a bit more. My IQ is 79 and the average for the country is 100.

Originally Posted by smichellen

Moonbat you are not. At least you aren't showing that side of yourself.

Are all left-wing Democrats moonbats?

I am a liberal in the sense of John Locke. One of the partners in my office is a black Jamaican female. She contributes based on what she has to bring to the table, not her race. I think that what went on during the 1950's and before deprived the US of much talent. Imagine, George Washington Carver, probably one of our foremost geniuses and inventors, had to leave speaking engagements via back stairways, and be schooled in inferior segregated schools.

I am left-wing in the sense of opposing that kind of racism and suppression.

[edog30]

Originally Posted by JBG

I am a liberal in the sense of John Locke.

The formerly wheelchair bound guy on Lost?

[Rightwing Nutjob]

That's a photo of Terry O'Quinn not John Locke ;)

[Fantasy Chaser]

Tool
Banned

You certainly are, on both counts.

[mtemptyspace2008]

Originally Posted by edog30

The formerly wheelchair bound guy on Lost?

I watch this show occasionally. It's a little strange though.
Oh and I didn't notice that there was a troll in this forum until now.

[Susanna]

Originally Posted by JBG

I appreciate compliments. And I appreciate credit for "half a brain" though it's a bit more. 1) My IQ is 79 and the average for the country is 100.


Are all left-wing Democrats moonbats?

I am a liberal in the sense of John Locke. One of the partners in my office is a black Jamaican female. She contributes based on what she has to bring to the table, not her race. I think that what went on during the 1950's and before deprived the US of much talent. Imagine, George Washington Carver, probably one of our foremost geniuses and inventors, had to leave speaking engagements via back stairways, and be schooled in inferior segregated schools.

2) I am left-wing in the sense of opposing that kind of racism and suppression.

1) If your IQ were that low, you'd be lucky to be able to read these posts, let alone respond to them.
2) Where I come from, that's definitely not left-wing.