A question just for veterans...

[Ld-Richard]

Originally Posted by edog30

Do you mean that youre not going to be 48 since you got out?

OOOOOps......

I would have been 48 had I stayed in.

I should ahve said I would have been 48 when I retired had I stayed in.

[Astaroth]

It can be a great career if your suited to it.

[Reagan Republican]

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

I enjoyed my time in the U.S. Army(a sense of fulfillment), though I couldn't see myself making a career out of it.

[Sean Osborne]

To join the U.S. military today is, as it has been for some time now, a voluntary choice for the enlistee. The paths are many: on the sea, under the sea, in the air and in the militarys oldest aspect, on the land.

It is a warrior culture which if you are willing to allow yourself to be remodeled in the drill sarge's image - you will do well.

In this era of existential threats to our national existence - there is no higher calling in my opinion.

If you want to join, which means becoming a contributor to securing our freedoms now and for our progeny by making sacrifices which can include the ultimate sacrifice -- then by all means go for it and do it.

Hooah.

[namvet527]

Originally Posted by rhmorgan

You ask a simple question that requires a complex answer. I think only certain people can have rewarding careers in the military.

Virtually every vocation in the civilian world has a counterpart in the military. Even “combat arms” occupations have a counterpart in civilian law enforcement. Although, it can be argued law enforcement agencies are paramilitary organizations themselves.

What sets the military life apart from civilian life? Military life is unique in many aspects. Military careers require you to be willing to uproot your family every 12-36 months to relocate to another part of the world. They require you to be willing to endure long separations from your family. Some branches of the military forces require you to live a Spartan lifestyle and can be both, grueling and physically demanding. Self-discipline is a requirement to succeed in a military life. You must have an unflinching dedication to the Service. You do not enter into a military career to order to amass a financial fortune. You will not even be able to survive on a military retirement, in most cases.

A military career requires dedication to a lifestyle alien to the life experience of most civilians. The military world is not a democracy, it is an autocracy. Not recognizing this difference can make military life unbearable. Failure to adapt to autocratic leadership will kill a military career. You have to be willing to submit to higher authority unquestionably. The old cliché “Question authority” has no place in the regimented military life. Orders are not “suggestions.” Success of operations require strict adherence to orders. Debating the merits of orders can get you killed.

For example, failure to respond instantly to, “Hit the deck” could result in the loss of life. This would not be a good career move.

I believe we should have mandatory Federal service. Every able citizen, male or female, should be required to serve a couple of years in some capacity. Even picking up trash in a National park is a service to country. This “service to country” could be part of a subsidized education plan.

All that said, I think everyone should “try” military life in the Reserves or Guard first. Find out if you can adapt to and enjoy the uniqueness of military regimen. Then, if the lifestyle fits, go for an active duty career. If it does not, you still have the benefit of learning more self discipline and have broaden your “life experience” without having invested years of your life. Moreover, you will have served your country. You will have helped defend the rights and liberties that allow you to make choices like this.

Excellent reply!!!!

Also our military is NOT SUPPOSED to be politically correct or fight a P.C. war. But it is turning out to be that way. "IF" the libpukes really cared about our militarty, which they obviously do not, they would NOT hamstring them with all this political correctness. KKKlinton TORTURED INNOCENT AMERICANS at Waco more than we would ever do to the GUILTY TERRORISTs at Gitmo or anywhere else.

[O.I.F.VET28]

Like others have said it is a personal choice. I joined with the intent of gaining experience in law enforcement. If I did not have a family I would still be in. You will meet a lot of people from all over the country and will form bonds that you cant form in civilian life. For me I wanted more time with my family so I got out. But I served 5 years for my country which is something no one can take from me, and I am proud of that. And I make a lot more money now!!!

[Conservative Libertarian]

Originally Posted by O.I.F.VET28

Like others have said it is a personal choice. I joined with the intent of gaining experience in law enforcement. If I did not have a family I would still be in. You will meet a lot of people from all over the country and will form bonds that you cant form in civilian life. For me I wanted more time with my family so I got out. But I served 5 years for my country which is something no one can take from me, and I am proud of that. And I make a lot more money now!!!

I thank you for your service to this great country.

[Idefnd4u]

The Military can be a positive influence on a person and it can be a negative influence. For me it was a Positive one. The Army took an overweight 18 year old kid and made him in to a 155 pound muscle toned, disciplined soldier. In my ten years of service, I have seen the negative effects Military can have. It can make families strong or it can tear them apart. I have seen soldiers that think the military is a playground for them to get away with doing things the way they want, and it always turns out in them receiving disciplinary action and separation.

I did not get married while I was in however, I come from a military family, My mother stayed with my father through 22 and counting years. It does take a special kind of spouse to marry a servicemen. It definitely takes a strong woman to support a spouse that may get called to lay down their life for other people's freedom and the freedoms of those here at home.

As far as the Military being too PC. I have heard and seen kids talk a lot of smack about what they would do if they were in Iraq, and I will tell them talking is one thing but doing it is another

[Plain Old Dave]

I would say a qualified Maybe. I can only speak for the Navy, but here goes...

Pro:
-Plenty of travel
-The only debts you will have are those you WANT
-Free health care
-Free food
-Good pay for the experience level

Con:
-Much time away from home
-Crankin' (Carrier Sailors will know what I'm talking about)
-Many tasks are ascinine and pointless

All in all, it's like my Senior Chief said one time. You choose your rate, you choose your fate.

[Spâtha]

Couple of things...

The day after the September Attacks, my good friend and I went down to the local recruiting office. I was Army, he was AirForce Master Chief. The second we walked in the 1st Sgt behind the desk, just laughed and asked what did WE want? Then said to, "get the hell out of here and don't come back!" My friend and I were both in our late 50s, so we figured they wouldn't want us, but we had to try. We had a good laugh.

Now I have this troubled nephew.
I've been talking with him about joining one of the services since he was 14. At 16 he was arrested for stealing a car. At 18 he was arrested for giving the McDonalds drivethru girl a bad check that the girl friend he was with gave to him to give to McDonalds(sort of convoluted). Anyway, since he actually handed over the check, he went to jail again. This time for 3 years!

So at 22 he came to live with us and I continued to talk about the services, but now he had a serious record to deal with. He was a convicted felon. We tried several things, talking to congressmen, talking to my son-in-law who is an E9 ARMY recruiter. No dice.

There is some caveat that if he keeps his nose clean for 10 years or some such requirement, he can apply - but by then it may be too late to save this kid.

So here's this kid that goofed up as a youngster that now WANTS to join up and can't because of his criminal past.

Moral of the story?
Keep your nose clean! If you want to go to college fine, but ask about the services in highschool. Being an officer is a very good thing!

Talk with the recriuiters before you graduate. Make an informed decision about the service or college.

Do not act like a punk! You will go to jail and put your future at risk.
You are not protected just because you are under age! Juvy records can and will be opened, and you will pay the price!

I recommend that every youngster spend at least 4 years in one of the branches of the armend services. It's a way to see the world, have some adventure, meet some great buddies, and along the way... learn what it takes to be a 'grown up'.

You won't believe the confidence, the strength of character, and the general knowledge you will have when or if you leave.

The military is a fine careear. Better than most.
It sure beats flippin burgers or being an Asst. Mgr at Wal-Mart!

[sjguy]

Originally Posted by Jay

Wow!! Very interesting!! For me it is easy............if drafted I would go, but I would never join because of the weakness in the armed forces today. You give a man a rifle, and then tell him he cant shoot?? You tell him to defend, yet he cannot defend himself or his comrades if under fire??

I love the military and everything they have given us, but I think it is too PC for the likes of me. I have family and friends in the military, and there is a-lot of good and bad that they tell me. This humble citizen thinks (for himself) the bad is intolerable. I have no time for kid games.........that was highschool........this is now.

jAY, I was in Vietnam as a helicopter door gunner in the 101st Airborne Division. Believe me there was a lot of politics going on then. But that is no excuse not to join. Your excuses are weak. I am sure glad most conservatives do not feel like you do. Most of the military are conservatives.

Johnson & the left wing politicians ran the war from DC. In spite of this the military had it won in 1968 and we won every major battle after that. The politicians pulled us out not allowing us to win. But being too PC and all the excuses you gave is no reason not to join, then or now. THERE ARE NO KID GAMES I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU CLAIM. Fighting and dieing is NO KID GAME. There is nothing childish about the military. It is all adult. I do not know if you are telling the truth or someone lied to you but your info about the military does not match reality.

Now, Bush is letting the military run the war and we are winning and will win. Again, Jay, your excuses for not joining the military is all wrong and does not match what the military is really like.

[Scorpius]

I served a hitch in the U.S. Navy, and then another in the Reserves. In the end - it was not for me. The reason - I wanted a family, and I was not willing to put my family through what I had witnessed so many others go through. Some family's do survive the ordeals and come out intact, however, many more do not. To those those that do - I salute you - Brazo Zulu. It takes truly special people, and this is no BS, to make it work. I respect those people immensely. But I did not want to take that risk myself.

While I was in the military, it was good experience for me. I think that the military gets a little too much credit for turning boys into men. Most young lads join at a time when this tends to occur naturally. However, the military hastens the process and does teach one to be responsible, else be held accountable. That there is something greater than one's self, that one is an integral part of something and that others depend upon you, and you must depend upon others. That to be successful, to achieve the mission, there must be teamwork. These are valuable lessons.

As a naive, young Kansas lad - I learned a lot. I also got to see a lot of the world, and there is good and bad in all peoples, but to see how so many people must live in other parts of the world, the things they suffer, for no reason other than the misfortune of having been born there - well, for me at least, it installed a deep appreciation of the life I have in the United States, while at the same time, I can harbor no animosity towards those that want to leave their hell holes and come make a life for themselves here.

I also remember feeling very insignificant the first time I went out to sea and went topside and looked around and could see nothing but water in all directions. It is humbling and good for a soul.

To answer the question - it depends upon the individual. I did not like the autocratic nature of the military personally, but I understand why it is such. While I was in for a short duration, I found it challenging to "play the game" - but one important lesson I took from the experience was to recognize that whether one chooses to play the game or not, the game exists and is being played by others, and in the end - you are part of the game no matter what you think. You must decide however, whether you will be a willing participant and if you will try to win or not. What is winning? Again, depends upon the indivdual - you figure it out.

[Conservative Libertarian]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I served a hitch in the U.S. Navy, and then another in the Reserves. In the end - it was not for me. The reason - I wanted a family, and I was not willing to put my family through what I had witnessed so many others go through. Some family's do survive the ordeals and come out intact, however, many more do not. To those those that do - I salute you - Brazo Zulu. It takes truly special people, and this is no BS, to make it work. I respect those people immensely. But I did not want to take that risk myself.

While I was in the military, it was good experience for me. I think that the military gets a little too much credit for turning boys into men. Most young lads join at a time when this tends to occur naturally. However, the military hastens the process and does teach one to be responsible, else be held accountable. That there is something greater than one's self, that one is an integral part of something and that others depend upon you, and you must depend upon others. That to be successful, to achieve the mission, there must be teamwork. These are valuable lessons.

As a naive, young Kansas lad - I learned a lot. I also got to see a lot of the world, and there is good and bad in all peoples, but to see how so many people must live in other parts of the world, the things they suffer, for no reason other than the misfortune of having been born there - well, for me at least, it installed a deep appreciation of the life I have in the United States, while at the same time, I can harbor no animosity towards those that want to leave their hell holes and come make a life for themselves here.

I also remember feeling very insignificant the first time I went out to sea and went topside and looked around and could see nothing but water in all directions. It is humbling and good for a soul.

To answer the question - it depends upon the individual. I did not like the autocratic nature of the military personally, but I understand why it is such. While I was in for a short duration, I found it challenging to "play the game" - but one important lesson I took from the experience was to recognize that whether one chooses to play the game or not, the game exists and is being played by others, and in the end - you are part of the game no matter what you think. You must decide however, whether you will be a willing participant and if you will try to win or not. What is winning? Again, depends upon the indivdual - you figure it out.

I thank you for your service to this great country. The game that you decribe exists in many different line's of work. While the game may be differently, each has a game. If you don't like playing it, you hav e to find one that you do like.

[Fantasy Chaser]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

...While I was in the military, it was good experience for me. I think that the military gets a little too much credit for turning boys into men. Most young lads join at a time when this tends to occur naturally. However, the military hastens the process and does teach one to be responsible, else be held accountable. That there is something greater than one's self, that one is an integral part of something and that others depend upon you, and you must depend upon others. That to be successful, to achieve the mission, there must be teamwork. These are valuable lessons...

In my case, the Navy did much to make a man out of me, because my father sure as hell didn't. I'm glad for the discipline I learned in the Navy.

[Scorpius]

I am happy for you. No argument from me on the point. However, I was not trying to say that this transformation does not occur, nor that the military is not deserving of any credit in this regard, only that it is oft over rated.

This demonstrates how different people can have different perceptions of basically the same events. It is to be expected, to some degree, given that we are each uniquely chiseled into what we are by our own experiences and knowledge, and this is good - were we all thinking the same, there would be little thinking actually occurring.

[Dacabeti]

I was in the Salvation Army. I got a new pair of sneaker. Well they were new to me.

[Conservative Libertarian]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I am happy for you. No argument from me on the point. However, I was not trying to say that this transformation does not occur, nor that the military is not deserving of any credit in this regard, only that it is oft over rated.

This demonstrates how different people can have different perceptions of basically the same events. It is to be expected, to some degree, given that we are each uniquely chiseled into what we are by our own experiences and knowledge, and this is good - were we all thinking the same, there would be little thinking actually occurring.

I work with one of the best electronic technicians there is. He's also a devout Christian with a stellar work ethic on top of his technical abilities. In the late 70's, after graduating High School, he did a 4 year enlistment in the Air Force. His experience was that he didn't want to make a career of it and left when his enlistment expired. However, he thanks the Air Force for giving him his foundation in electonics knowledge. He later told me that, on a personal level, it was a lifestyle that countered his deeply religious convictions. The group that he was with worked hard and played hard (too hard for his tastes). He wasn't interested in spending his paycheck on booze and strippers. One can not only become socially isolated and ridiculed but, if your superiors are also amongst them that are doing so, it can harm your chances of career advancement. Another friend of mine had a similar experience while in the Air Force except he wasn't religious in any way. He didn't like to party and drink. He saved and invested. He was ridiculed for it by his group and direct superiors.

This is the sad part about military life which doesn't make it a good fit for some of our more qualified citizens that simple don't feel the need to "play hard" even though they work hard. However, they still did their service and are usually thankful to the military for teaching the foundations of their careers/skill sets. They are still worthy of my thanks for their service and they still respect those that serve.

[Conservative Libertarian]

Originally Posted by Dacabeti

I was in the Salvation Army. I got a new pair of sneaker. Well they were new to me.

I thought that you were your own Salvation Army (of one).

[Susanna]

Mike didn't party either; he did spend a lot of money, but even today, he has something to show for it. He has an awful lot of books he bought when he was in the Navy.

[Scorpius]

I entered the Navy in 1982, went to boot camp at Orlando, BEEP school at Orlando also, then was assigned to my first ship in Norfolk. The ships was dry docked at the time for a major overhaul. I do recall being in shock as I slowly began to get to know folks and assimilate, and it became more apparent to me that approximately 75 - 80% of the entire ships' crew smoked dope - even some officers.

By the time I had gotten out of the active military, they had whittled this down to under 10% via regular urine analysis tests and rigorous application of law to cast the dopers out.

I would have no idea what the percentages are today.