A Big "Progressive" Historical Lie ...The American Revolution

Part of the “1619 Project” historical revisionist theory states that the American Revolutionary War was fought to preserve slavery. Implicit in this argument is that the British Government supported ending slavery in the mid 1770s. The revisionists are off by almost 60 years. The British Empire did curb slave trading in 1808 and ended it all together in the mid 1830s. But to argue that the American Revolutionary War was a fight between the “abolitionist British Government of King George III and the slaving holding colonists” is ridiculous.

The British abolitionist movement did not get started until the 1780s after The United States had gained its independence. One of the leaders of the movement was Joseph Westwood, the famous china maker. Almost as it was in America, abolitionism took time to gather political steam. This token, which would be emulated by American abolitionists 50 years later was issued in the 1780s.

Westwood issued this ceramic piece during the same period.


Here is the American version.

In fact disagreements over slavery was one of the factors that could have torn the American Revolutionary movement apart. Representatives to the Continental Congress had heated debates about it. The issue had to be “tabled” in the interest of gaining independence from the British Empire.

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I think it’s fair to say the issue of slavery played a role in the revolutionary war, though not nearly to the extent it did in the civil war.

Per Wikipedia
The English didn’t end slave trading completely until the 1830s, but the ball got rolling with the 1772 Somerset v Stewart case in which the judge stated:

“The state of slavery is of such a nature that it is incapable of being introduced on any reasons, moral or political, but only by positive law, which preserves its force long after the reasons, occasions, and time itself from whence it was created, is erased from memory. It is so odious, that nothing can be suffered to support it, but positive law. Whatever inconveniences, therefore, may follow from the decision, I cannot say this case is allowed or approved by the law of England; and therefore the black must be discharged.”

It became important because while this ruling didn’t directly apply to the colonies, people in America tried to use the case as precedent to sue for similar rights domestically. This legal struggle led to both slavery supporters and abolitionists wanting independence from England so they could make their own laws on the matter stronger.

So, I think it definitely played a role, but it wouldn’t be fair to say flat out that we left the empire to keep slaves.

Sorry @Gene, but the opinion of one judge in an obscure statement does not condemn the merits of the American Revolution. The Woke crowd is caught once more in a historical lie.

I didn’t say it did, but it was not obscure. It was a big story that made the papers overseas and led to litigation in America.

Obscuring the point doesn’t help Gene.

The people behind the 1619 project did lie, and they resurrected neo-confederate historical narratives to tell that lie.

This is inexcusable.

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I don’t know all the specifics about the 1619 Project, but I’ve heard nothing good about it. Last I heard, twenty states were at work on legislation to ban it from being taught in public schools.

You should stop drinking the woke Kool Aid, @Gene, and look at the principals Jefferson laid out in the Declaration of Independence. They formed a road map for human rights and are far superior to the Marxist stuff that has you in its grips.

Has the Jeffersonian dream been perfectly realized? Of course not, but it beats the hell out of the repeated failures of Marxism. I posed the question to one of your colleagues, name one country past or present where Marxism has worked and improved the human condition. I have yet to read a response from him.

I’ll pose the same question to you. Which of you leftist regimes have gotten it right? The Soviet Union, Communist China, Cambodia, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea? Which one is it?

Capitalism and all systems of government have their faults, but historically nothing you side has invented has done better.

From what I have read, the concept behind the 1619 Project is that everything that has happened in the United States since 1619, when the first slave arrived here, has sucked. Because of that, every aspect of the American system of government is a lie and must be rejected.

Going along with that is the concept that all White people have been born evil and should be ashamed of themselves for even living. You can’t get more racist than that. This crap is now taught to children in the public schools, and that why many people have “woken up” to how insidious the far left has become.

This is a more virulent strain of the victimization strategy that the Democrats have used to rope African-Americans in for years. They have doubled down on it because Trump’s economic policies were working for minorities before the pandemic. The Republicans were making inroads, the Democrats couldn’t have that.

How dare the minorities succeed on their own! How can you survive without the government running every aspect of you life? How can you live without Nancy, Chuckie and AOC telling you what to do? Why it’s unthinkable!

You know what, no. I’m calling this behavior out. @Fantasy_Chaser, it doesn’t matter what I post, I get this same rant from Send. At this point the pattern is clear enough that he’s breaking the rules by attacking the poster instead of the post.

What’s the matter @Gene? Is that you can’t take the heat any more, or perhaps some of your assumptions have shaken? The only comment that you could internalize is the Kool Aid comment. The rest is asking you some simple questions, which you refuse the address. You want to impose socialism on the rest of us, and yet you can’t justify it.

If I am going to be run off this site for asking a leftist to justify his positions, then this site is not worth the bother. The former members here, who have told me that I should post elsewhere are correct.

This is Republican site. It’s not Twitter. If you want to be in echo chamber, go there.

I’ll echo that badgering like this seems out of step with the rules here.

I guess this site has become the politically correct “tea and crumpets society” with only politically correct discourses allowed. You and I had some very heated discussions about immigration a couple of years ago, and I did not recall that you went running to moderator to protect you.

The left has made it very clear what their goals are.

• They are going to run the national debt to record levels that exceed our GNP and keep doing it.
• Increase taxes on corporations and wealthy individuals who fund many of the jobs in the private sector.
• Flood the country with hundreds of thousands or even millions undocumented illegal aliens who come here expecting the benefits that all of the Democratic presidential candidate promised them. The left has no consideration for the local communities who must deal with this influx. The left’s goal is to flood the polls with new Democrat voters who will put the Democrat Party in charge permanently.
• The left has shown a strong reluctance to deal with illegal aliens who commit violent crimes.
• Do away with the use of all fossil fuels without cost effective replacements for them.
• Teach White children that they have been guilty since the day they were born of “White Privilege” and make them feel guilty for being the race that they are.
• Re-write our entire history in a totally one-side way that do not reflect events as they occurred.

If asking the socialists to point out where their system as worked is out of bounds, then I will plead guilty. That is a very honest and fair question because they are determined to impose socialism on us.

After watching “Trump Train” and a far leftist, whose name escapes me, issue one personal insult after another on this site, and have it take months to remove them is okay, then think I am being unfairly cited.

You don’t get to chase someone into every single thread, accuse them of being marxist, just because they didn’t answer your argument on some other thread.

Time & place. The problem is that you’re making it personal, and you’re assuming “well my cause is just” = " I can bend the rules all I like".

I don’t agree. Keep arguments of certain threads, in those threads. Don’t chase people with an argument into different threads with different topics, and bash them because they didn’t answer you, or didn’t answer to your satisfaction.

The woke act without etiquette, assuming it’s just an excuse not to conform to their agenda.

Don’t follow their example Send. Time & place matter.

Here is a quote from @Patooka:

“You have pretty much stated that you support God Emperor Trump no matter what. How does that stop you from being a whore? I am not accusing you of being a whore, I am asking why you are different.”

Where are the sanctions on him? Does being a leftist exempt him? I didn’t go running to the bosses; I answered him.

I don’t get ask anything. The leftist can say whatever they want, and cannot be called to account.

Then you can flag the comment. Yes, I have done that with you. I also did it with Trumptrain when he did this same thing to me.

Chasing me wherever I went, bashing me whether I had said anything to him or not. Dragging in accusations of socialism and Marxism into every single argument no matter what I said.

And hey, he got banned, and most users here agreed he deserved it. Are you going to tell me that this decision was due to political correctness?

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Not with Trump Train. He used intemperate language and called people things like “baby killers.” And yes, you are dealing in political correctness. These are major questions and problems that face us, and if the left is determined to push their agenda down our throats you should be concerned. You should be challenging them, unless you agree with them.

It’s not your fight. I did not ask you a question. You are like the third man in in a hockey fight. If @gene chooses to ignore the question, let him.

I gave you a list of concerns. As a libertarian, I would think that some of them would concern you.

Seeing as I’m now being dragged into this delightful exchange, I guess I’ll toss in my $0.02

Firstly, if I’m reprimanded by a moderator, you will never hear about it from me. I don’t air my resentments publicly and my opinion is that airing such a disagreement (moderator and forumer) is considered very bad form. So is complaining about a moderator, or publicly complaining to a moderator is not something I condone. So to point out the obvious, I do not support Gene’s or AS’s posts.

Secondly, and this is weird, I kinda agree with you Sendgop. I don’t think you attack people personally or even argue in bad faith. Don’t get me wrong - your arguments are pathetic and you constantly strawman your perception on what “left wing”, “liberal” or “socialist” means. You very much have a habit of assuming anyone who disagrees with you is a left wing bogey man who wishes to ban Mr PotatoHead or something. It doesn’t change that I believe you argue in good faith. If you have a flaw (and it is a very minor one), it is that you assume too much in a post. That is not the same as a personal attack in my opinion.

Lastly, the post you quoted of me. My intent with that post was to show how you argue with people who disagree with you. Simply put, it was a critique on how you argue and not an attack on you. It was rhetorical hyperbole on my part and that is no excuse. I should have made my point in a more respectful manner and I apologise.

TL,DR - I don’t believe Sendgop wasn’t attacking Gene personally, and by airing all this publicly isn’t a good look…

Nope, I’m dealing in forum etiquette. Nothing political, nothing about identity, it’s all about how your tactic of trying to force Gene to answer your question, by pushing the question to every other thread.

That’s obnoxious.

To be clear, Flagging isn’t public, it’s a function in the forum user interface. No one knows they’ve been flagged until a moderator approaches them about it.

Mild, but it is there. But that’s not even the point I’m making.

My point, is that he chases this topic into every other topic Gene is in. He keeps bringing it up, regardless of if its germane to the topic at hand.

That’s tiring to the person who didn’t want to answer in the first place (Gene), and it’s tiring to me as someone who would prefer we talk about the actual topic matter.

Send is acting as if he deserves an answer, and that this overrides any need to talk about anything else. That harms the health of the forum, it badgers the person in question, and it shuts down discussion about anything else.

I knew that much; just not the contorted “logic” behind it.

In a word, bull.

Then where is Mr. Blue?

Somebody tried to… :open_mouth: