A Canticle for Leibowitz

i’m still musing upon andrea’s “only when manhood is dead…” golly. how is she defining “manhood?” does she mean “kill all the men?’’ :firing: or “castrate all the men?” :whistle: or… what? cant be either of those, surely, because then…how would the feminist race exist for more than one generation? seems like Someone Up There does think men, for all their cantankerousness, are (however regrettably, smile) necessary. maybe she thought women could use their sexual powers to turn men into women with slightly different plumbing? fat chance. oh well, she is gone, we cant ask her: Andrea, *what were you thinking?” * :noclue:

Hi Patricia,

Yeah the activists in the movement are “something else altogether”, they’re really vicious. The rank and file not so much, they just want
what any normal human being wants [love, respect, security, loyalty, faithfulness] and the 21st c. “males” [being produced by liberalism]
are not giving them that.

One night stands, STD’s, amazing immaturity, and such like, are not the foundation for lasting relationships. Liberalism has produced
a generation of immature children locked in adult male bodies. They can’t even take care of themselves spiritually, much less become
the leader of a family and a responsible husband and father.

Jack, you are so funny. When you start our your procession of devastating quotes with the polite phrase “Andrea becomes hard to appreciate…”… no one would know you are about to drop atomic bombs!!

:grin: Ms. Dworkin was her own worst enemy. She had “foot in mouth” disease.

… lol …

I feel compelled to point out the sheer cluelessness in criticizing a feminist thinker for failing to live up to your notions of female beauty. I should probably just shake my head and then slowly back away. Alas. I couldn’t resist pointing out that Dworkin’s arguments have been unwittingly supported by the sentiments of those in this thread who oppose her.

[quote=“J.Anderson, post:43, topic:44483”]
I feel compelled to point out the sheer cluelessness in criticizing a feminist thinker for failing to live up to your notions of female beauty. I should probably just shake my head and then slowly back away. Alas. I couldn’t resist pointing out that Dworkin’s arguments have been unwittingly supported by the sentiments of those in this thread who oppose her.
[/quote] when responding to a previous post or posts, please employ quote tags to enable your readers to discern exactly what and whom you are responding to. it’s a small forum courtesy that is much appreciated.

[quote=“J.Anderson, post:43, topic:44483”]
I feel compelled to point out the sheer cluelessness in criticizing a feminist thinker for failing to live up to your notions of female beauty.
[/quote]J,

Notions of female beauty had nothing to do with my opposition to Ms. Dworkin, my opposition was based 100% on her vicious ugly hateful statements as listed below.

I was one that opposed her, but not because she failed to be nominated and elected as Miss America and appointed as the poster lady for Weight Watchers.

[Btw, some of the sweetest and most feminine women I know, are overweight and not blessed with a “Monica Bellucci face.” And in all my decades
on the Earth I have never heard any Conservative men make disparaging remarks about the appearance of such ladies.]

In another vein:

/Big Grin … When they say stuff like this down below, my view is they have lost their status as a “thinker” and have become a HATER,
and a raving ranting hysterical MALE basher and male hater, and a raving ranting hysterical HUSBAND basher and husband hater,
and a raving ranting hysterical FATHER basher and father hater, and a raving ranting hysterical traditional FAMILY basher and family
hater, and when they become all that, in my view they deserve zero respect from anybody on the planet.

Alas. I couldn’t resist pointing out that Dworkin’s disgusting personal character and her disgusting sickening worldview and her disgusting
hateful misandry have been wittingly supported by the sentiments expressed in her comments down below. Ms. Dworkin boldly and viciously
hates, despises, and loathes the entire masculine gender, husbandhood, fatherhood, and the traditional Biblical family, and we can add to
all that the fact that she was a glutton on the side and not at all a chic dresser … lol …

Therefore Ms. Dworkin was not a “feminist thinker”, rather she was a Feminist Hater-Ranter, as noted above, and as supported by what is
down below:

  • “Marriage”, said the feminist Andrea Dworkin, “is an institution that developed from rape.”

Andrea Dworkin
:biggrin:


"The common erotic project of destroying women makes it possible for men
to unite into a brotherhood;
this project is the only firm and trustworthy
groundwork for cooperation among males and all male bonding is based on it."
__Andrea Dworkin


“Men know everything - all of them - all the time - no matter how stupid or
inexperienced or arrogant or ignorant they are.”
__Andrea Dworkin


** [COLOR="#B22222"]“Feminism is hated because women are hated. Anti-feminism is a direct
expression of misogyny; it is the political defense of women hating.” **
__Andrea Dworkin


Men have defined the parameters of every subject. All feminist arguments, however
radical in intent or consequence, are with or against assertions or premises implicit
in the male system, which is made credible or authentic by the power of men to name."
__Andrea Dworkin


** The genius of any slave system is found in the dynamics which isolate slaves from each
other, obscure the reality of a common condition, and make united rebellion against the
oppressor inconceivable. **__Andrea Dworkin
[Jack note: She means women are the slaves of men]


“Men who want to support women in our struggle for freedom and justice should understand
that it is not terrifically important to us that they learn to cry; it is important to us that they
stop the crimes of violence against us.”__Andrea Dworkin


** [SIZE=4]“Only when manhood is dead - and it will perish when ravaged femininity
no longer sustains it - only then will we know what it is to be free.” **
__Andrea Dworkin


“Childbearing is glorified in part because women die from it.”
__Andrea Dworkin[/SIZE][/COLOR]


Read more at Andrea Dworkin Quotes - BrainyQuote


Cheers.

♫ ♪ ♫ ♪

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2 Likes

[quote=“Jack_Hectormann, post:45, topic:44483”]
J,

Notions of female beauty had nothing to do with my opposition to Ms. Dworkin, my opposition was based 100% on her vicious ugly hateful statements as listed below.
[/quote] I agree Jack. Dworkin’s “statements” speak for themselves. btw I have never read or heard any conservative rhetoric, even at its most intense, that radiated as much pure hate as the quotes you cited do.

I’ve always been curious to discover WHY these women who were such virulent man-haters invariably turn out to be homely as an English bulldog, too. Maybe THAT’S why, come to think of it!

Hi Patricia,

/Grin … These feminists activists are “something else again” when it comes
to the hate-rhetoric and the ranting. I don’t think average women that classify
themselves as feminists would say stuff like their leaders say, and I don’t think
they feel emotionally that way towards men or the traditional family either.

The good news is Feminism, like all the other isms that are the children of the
false religion of Liberalism-Secularism-Humanism, is not going to survive the
onslaughts of what Time is going to bring against them. The wiser people of
Earth’s future will look back in amazement and pity upon the 21st century’s
Feminism in the sense that it will included, among all the other isms, in the
eventual self-destruction of the Liberal-Secular-Humanist 21st century system.

Just demography alone is enough for General Time to eventually destroy
Feminism. Take Europe as a shinning example. All the nations of Europe,
except Muslim Albania, have birthrates down below replacements levels.

As one wise man said, “You can’t just sit there decade after decade with
no babies. At some point your nation will die demographically.”

It takes 2.1 births per woman of child bearing age just to break even
with any nation’s death rate, unless you have a steady influx of
immigrants. /Big Grin … And immigrants are pouring into Europe
by the millions and guess what their religion is? Hint: It starts
with an I.

[and they are not assimilating to Europe, instead Europe is fast
assimilating to them]

:diamonds:

I checked A Canticle for Leibowitz out from the local library (with a few other books). I’ve only looked at it a little so far, but I’ve been wanting to give it a read.

[quote=“Fantasy_Chaser, post:49, topic:44483”]
I checked A Canticle for Leibowitz out from the local library (with a few other books). I’ve only looked at it a little so far, but I’ve been wanting to give it a read.
[/quote] I will be VERY interested in hearing your reaction to it. It’s not for everyone, but I love that book.

Just finished it last night. It’s cerebral enough that I didn’t follow everything very well (coupled with the fact that I read it piecemeal), but it was obviously thoughtful and well written.

I was amused by the bits in the Fiat Homo segment like when Brother Francis was afraid he’d released a kind of demon called a “Fallout” because he’d uncovered a fallout shelter, or when he did that elaborate artwork version of an ordinary circuit drawing by Leibowitz; or him always fainting in anxious circumstances…

I didn’t follow the Fiat Lux segment as well, but I noted the exchange between the abbot and the guy studying their vast collection of books where the former was concerned with the latter instigating a sort of a repeat of the fall through the knowledge he sought.

The high-technology environment of the Fiat Voluntas Tua appealed to me the most, but it was so dreary with the pall of nuclear war hanging over everything. I find particularly interesting the ethical debate on euthanasia involving victims of that isolated nuke blast who had been irradiated beyond hope (similar to one we’ve had here on RO recently). I remember the story that Zerchi told about the cat that he took out to put to death. He made a hash of it with two shots and didn’t get the job done and finally finished him with a shovel, and his regret at not just leaving the cat alone and letting him die with dignity. I remember that from my teen years, but I thought I’d read it in To Kill a Mockingbird; apparently not. I remember from the radio version the nuke apocalyps, the scene at the with Zerchi and Mrs. Grales/Rachel, and the departure of the starship.

I found Canticle to be profoundly prolife, and when I found out that Miller’s life ended by suicide, that really bothered me for a while. It didn’t change my high opinion of the book, but I thought, “Why? Why?” but depression just is what it is, and some people just lose their battle with it. and some have painful conditions that they grow weary of waiting for natural death to release them from. so, while vigilantly protecting people from losing their lives because other** people find it convenient for them to die, we should not be overly harsh in judging those who take their own lives–perhaps they were not really themselves when they did it.

The other aspect of canticle** that I found fascinating was the deja vu** motif popping up again and again–as deja vu has a way of doing! The monks tried to preserve knowledge in order to rebuild a humane civilization, but as soon as it became known that they may have stumbled on some technological advances (which they realized were potentially explosive and tried to hide), it was game on for the warring factions in the wasteland that had once been the United States–and the abbey became exactly what its abbots had so long tried to prevent, a pawn in other people’s power games.

not exactly a feel-good novel, but once that I found inspiring in ways that are hard to explain. I’m glad you read it; sometime when you have time, you may even want to reread it. I know I do. I had been wondering if you gotten to it. thanks for touching base on that.

They have a copy of Saint Leibowitz and the Wild Horse Women at our library. I might like to take a look at it sometime later, Lord willing.