A good explanation of Progressives


#1

This British fellow is spot on with one exception. What he is saying most likely fits British politics the best. In the US, Liberals are proud to call themselves progressives and are the same thing. For the folks on Dial up, I will search for a transcript.

The Truth Is Incorrect.


#2

Transcript can be found at the link below. Even though it comes from a site called Atheist Exile, it appears to be accurate.
http://www.atheistexile.com/videos/pat-condell/pat-condell-video-transcripts/the-truth-is-incorrect/


#3

[quote=“Conservative_Libertarian, post:2, topic:39543”]
Transcript can be found at the link below. Even though it comes from a site called Atheist Exile, it appears to be accurate.
http://www.atheistexile.com/videos/pat-condell/pat-condell-video-transcripts/the-truth-is-incorrect/
[/quote]This fellow is right on. Progressives mean absolute moronic march to certain types of government we have seen in the past.


#4

Only managed to get half way through to be honest, so he may have pulled out some profound revelation that I missed towards the end. His definition of ‘Progressive’ is one he’s made up, I’ve never heard it used by right or left within our political landscape and as he doesn’t actually say who these perceived ‘Progressives’ are I’m inclined to think it pretty much just means ‘people I don’t like’. Also odd how he seperates the ‘right sort’ of Leftie, no idea what he considers the ‘right sort’ but suspect it’s equally disjointed from most peoples reality.

Did get as far as the part about Jews not being able to walk through Muslim ‘ghettos’ due to immigrants before giving up. In the UK that’s a complete lie, in mainland and Eastern Europe there’s certainly been a rise in anti-Semitism over recent years but much of that is tied to the rise of the far right. Who, ironically, are quite happy to demonise both Jews and Muslims in their search for popularity. Golden Dawn in Greece and Sovobda (spl?) in the Ukraine are two good examples for that, as well as the FN in France although I think they’re trying to play a more centrist line now rather than overt anti-immigrant and anti-Semitic line.


#5

Of course, Progressives don’t like this fellow’s truthful defintion of a progressive because in their minds, the truth is incorrect.


#6

It’s not hard to make up truth when your definition of progressive is one you just made up. The man even defends liberals in his bit. Statements like this, though: “Progressives tend to regulate and censor and meddle and interfere because progressives always know best for everyone,” are just made up on the spot. If you’re defining the oppositions argument, you can refute it quite easily. It’s a strawman.

The argument he makes is, “Progressives are bad. Therefore, progressives are bad.”


#7

As Trekky says, it’s a strawman, I neither like nor dislike his definition because it’s too incoherent to be relevant to any political reality. It’s more a list of his pet peeves stated in a sort of pub philosopher way. Plus I’m an out and out Lefty, so going by his opening statement he might even approve of me (if I’m the ‘right sort’, whatever that means).


#8

There is nothing that the man said that is incorrect. I have seen everything that he has stated on these boards and in real life. He is spot on. There is nothing incoherent in what he has said. As a Progressive, you are clearly making his definition seem more correct with every post you make. “The Truth is Incorrect.”


#9

Ok then… what, in your opinion, are the defining qualities of a Progressive and how have I shown those qualities…? Also, as he was talking from a British perspective, I assume you know how political landscape well enough to discuss the issues on those grounds.


#10

It’s hard to be incorrect when your article is a giant tautology.


#11

The fellow in the video defined “progressive” very well. Your survey and participation on this board seem to align you with the progressives.

If you had taken time to read my post that has the video, YouSir would see where I disagree with him but, give him the benefit of the doubt for it applying it the UK. We have had UK members here that would most likely agree with Mr. Condell.

Again, this guy is spot on in his description of progressives. Since he has so accurately described them, I have no reason to believe your assertion that he is liar even though you admit to not watching it in its entirety. We have had UK members post info that is in complete agreement with him as well. Therefore, you assertion that he is a liar is simply your opinion which is a progressive tactic to shut up or marginalize the opposition without a shred of evidence to back you up. “The truth is incorrect.”.

A progressive is one who progressively strives to push continual changes that will ultimately end in a socialist/communist state. They are synonymous with Liberal here in the US. You can now respond with a post that will attempt to use the English language as a weapon.


#12

Ok, will try to take this point by point. Firstly in your last paragraph you say that Progressives seek to push continual changes towards a Socialist or Communist state. That in itself is something of a contradiction in terms as it suggests that Communists are Reformists as opposed to Revolutionaries, which most aren’t, it also lumps the Left in with center Liberalism, where it doesn’t belong. No one with a working knowledge of Socialism or Communism would lump them in with the likes of Obama or Blair. Their form of centrist Liberalism isn’t economically Socialist and the view of most on the Left is that their veneer of Social Liberalism (on issues like gay marriage or equal rights for example) is a fairly meaningless attempt at Reformism as it doesn’t relate to the more important economic issues. If you do believe that the likes of Obama are pursuing a Left/Communist economic agenda then you really don’t understand what that means. Even where they may seem more towards the center than what you perceive as the American mainstream it’s still a corporate-focused system they’re aiming for. Which is why so many on the Left are as dismissive, if not more so, of Obama as those on the Right. It shows a severe lack of political understanding if you can’t differentiate between the two.

If you had taken time to read my post that has the video, YouSir would see where I disagree with him but, give him the benefit of the doubt for it applying it the UK. We have had UK members here that would most likely agree with Mr. Condell.

And I know hundreds of British people who wouldn’t agree with him, from both sides of the political spectrum. Unless you can point to some factual grounding for his assertions about the terror which Muslim ghettos are imposing on us then you’re just accepting his opinion as one you like, rather than as one which stands up to any kind of critical analysis. Perhaps suggesting it was a lie was a poor choice on my part, he may sincerely believe what he says but I’ve neither seen nor read anything which substantiates it. Even in reference to a place like Bradford, where racial issues have become a more major issue, his descriptions would seem more hyperbolic than reasonable.

His definition of a ‘Progressive’ is, from the start, a nebulous one. For example he differentiates between Progressives and the ‘right sort’ of Lefty, which suggests he’s somewhat agreeing with my differentiation between center Liberals and the actual Left but as he doesn’t go any further on that definition it becomes somewhat redundant. Are ardent Socialists who’re openly in favour of nationalisation via reformism lumped in with his Progressives? Both the Tories and Labour in this country would distance themselves from them and in the US they wouldn’t go within a hundred yards of such ideas. So already the umbrella term of ‘Progressives’ has broken down into conflicting camps due to it’s lack of nuance.

Therefore, you assertion that he is a liar is simply your opinion which is a progressive tactic to shut up or marginalize the opposition without a shred of evidence to back you up. “The truth is incorrect.”.

I don’t really know what that means. As far as I know we’re engaging in a discussion, I’m neither trying to marginalise nor shut you up and wouldn’t have the power to do either one even if I wanted to. Seems slightly childish to accuse me of that simply because my opinions differ from your own. As to the ‘truth is incorrect’ part - I’ve yet to see any evidence, proof or truth presented here, just opinions - but yes, I do think your opinions are wrong, my apologies if you take that as a personal issue.

A progressive is one who progressively strives to push continual changes that will ultimately end in a socialist/communist state. They are synonymous with Liberal here in the US. You can now respond with a post that will attempt to use the English language as a weapon.

Liberals aren’t Communists, they’re two massively different political systems with economic goals which are incompatible. You’re lumping in disparate groups who argue with each other almost as much as they argue with the right.

And I don’t really get that final line either, I use the English language to communicate my thoughts in the most coherent and erudite way I can manage, what’s wrong with that? It’s not a personal attack on you, it’s my disagreeing with some of the things you’re saying, which is the basis for any worthwhile discussion.

e2a: Sorry if that post was a little long, inner ear infection has left me in a bit of a daze today.

e2a2: And for what it’s worth my beliefs have next to nothing in common with Obama’s, Blair’s, Cameron’s or any other centerist/center right Liberal, so if the Progressive label places us together then it’s already shown it’s short comings.


#13

I’ll let you argue with other brits about British Politics. I have stated the way it is in the US. If you don’t wish to believe me, I don’t care.

You have stated nothing that negates what this fellow said. He is spot on. Ther eis nothing to argue about. Everyone knows that he is correct. You are arguing against it because it shines light on the truth. To you, the truth is obviously incorrect. Thanks for further demonstrating just how correct this man is.


#14

I… don’t know how to respond to that. There is no discussion to be had here, you just keep saying that what you think is the truth and anything I say is some nefarious scheme to bury that truth. Any point I make you ignore and just repeat that same, nonsensical denial. I’m not even being credited with having my own beliefs, as you seemingly believe everything I say to be some cynical lie. I’m actually finding it incredibly rude, arrogant, dismissive and a complete waste of time. So I’ll leave it there and, I think, leave these boards too if this is the accepted standard of discussion.


#15

The issue is his logic. His premise is the same as his conclusion. It’s a rant about progressives as he sees them, not some great argument you’re making it out to be. He comes right out and says progressives are bad, but then goes no further than that. The entire article is about how progressives are bad, and if he’s assuming that to be true in the first place, then the argument is non-existent.


#16

There is nothing to discuss. Mr. Condell is correct. Also to bolster his claims about Muslim violence in Europe, read this article.
Suspected Muslim terrorists hack man to death on busy London street


#17

This thread and the article linked are a joke.


#18

Spoken like a true progressive.


#19

Spoken like a true progressive. I can do it too. You call anyone who disagrees with you a progressive, whether they display progressive attitudes or not. You use the word so you can passive aggressively insult people on this forum and get away with it. For example:

"You’re a progressive."
Next post: “progressives are evil, idiotic, baby killers”

It’s a pathetic, slimy, and cowardly way of insulting people which speaks volumes about the type of person you are, or at least portray to be on the Internet.


#20

You have clearly promoted progressive positions on just about every one of the topics in which you have participated. It’s not an insult. It’s the truth. You can try to discredit me with all of the passive aggressive psychobabble that you want. It still doesn’t change the truth.