A Vote’s Consequences and a Voter’s Conscience


#1

A well-written column about voting your conscience.

My fond regard for these two good and thoughtful friends, lifelong conservatives both, is not diminished by our disagreements. And I do disagree with both of them. For my part, my conscience is more important to me than the outcome of this presidential election. I cannot in good conscience vote for either Clinton or Trump. What matters for me is that I cannot bring myself tointend, to will the victory of either of these ludicrously unacceptable presidential candidates. And that is what a vote for one of them would be—an act of willingthat Clinton or Trump be president, carry out her or his stated policy aims, and bring his or her fundamentally bad character to the highest office in the land.
A Vote

After a lifetime of studying politics, I have finally, thanks to the electoral annus horribilis of 2016, arrived at an ethic of voting that I can defend against all rival ethics. It is simply this: Vote as if your ballot determines nothing whatsoever—except the shape of your own character. Vote as if the public consequences of your action weigh nothing next to the private consequences. The country will go whither it will go, when all the votes are counted. What should matter the most to you is whither you will go, on and after this November’s election day.


#2

My conscience is clear. Those are two extreme right wing arguments are for making Hillary the next president. You can vote for Trump and take a chance or stay home and make Hillary the next president and flush the country, as you have known it, down the toilet. Vote for Trump.


#3

I think people take politics way too seriously. We live in a country of 300 million people, where at best, you have a tiny, tiny impact on anything(if you live in a swing state).

I remember hearing liberals in the pre-08 era talk about how Bush was destroying the country. Somehow, we seemed to survive just fine. Then for seven years I’ve heard conservatives insist that Obama is destroying America. And yet, here we are at the twilight of his presidency and America is still the only super power in the world. And when I look around, I don’t see where things are worse than they were at the end of the 90s.

So when I hear the chorus of Clinton/Trump will destroy America! I just know it’s more fear mongering from same the people who were wrong about Bush, and Obama. I know everyone likes drama, but it doesn’t really matter who is elected at the end of the day. Whether Trump, Clinton, Gary Johnson, Zombie Reagan, Karl Marx, or Jesus is elected president, things will not be day and night different. No president has the power to significantly shape the country.

Is this the last shot conservatives have to stem the tide of illegals and give themselves a shot of getting a True Conservative™ elected in the future. Yeah, but I don’t care about conservatism. Half of the things I like about Trump directly contradict conservatism anyway.

So I’ll cast my vote and let it be. If my candidate loses, it’s not a huge deal. Clinton won’t destroy the country. We’ll be fine, as always. She’ll just do a few things I don’t like, that ultimately are not even in the top ten things that affect my daily life.


#4

The stakes are a lot higher this time, cwolf. If nothing else you should think about what our future will be with the Suprer Court packed with clones of Ruth Bater Ginsburg. That alone should give you pause.


#5

Pause? It should give you the vapors.


#6

Brilliant article, I wish I had written it :flag:

Many great quotes but I liked this;

Now, however, we really do have two evils to choose between—or to decline choosing. Neither Trump nor Clinton has a single redeeming characteristic that recommends him or her to the presidency of the United States—at least none that is not decisively outweighed by some other damning characteristic.

I like how he points out that the old “Lesser of two evils” argument is really only palatable if one of the candidates is not actually evil, when both are evil it just means you are willing evil to prosper.


#7

Some Conservatives/Republicans on this site proudly proclaim their “CONSCIENCE” will not allow them to cast their vote for Trump - of course, a Repub/Con withholding a vote for the Republican candidate can be helpful to only the Democrat candidate, Hillary Clinton and her criminal enterprise.

All I can say is, I guess their CONSCIENCE is OK with Hillary Clinton stacking the Supreme Court and federal benches with Progressive jurists and expanding the near unabated flow of illegal immigrants and Syrian “refugees” into the United States and the drastic consequences that will have on their lives and the lives of their children and grandchildren - forever.


#8

It’s all about electoral votes. Trump has my state’s electoral votes whether I vote for him or not.


#9

The article covers the Supreme Court issue as well, in my case that is a non factor since there is no scenario where the court does not end up packed with enemies to the Constitution.


#10

[quote=“Sendgop, post:4, topic:49194”]
The stakes are a lot higher this time, cwolf. If nothing else you should think about what our future will be with the Suprer Court packed with clones of Ruth Bater Ginsburg. That alone should give you pause.
[/quote]Same deal. Ginsburg votes with Roberts in over %70 of cases. Meanwhile, Roberts only votes with Scalia in %90 of cases(and Scalia only votes with Thomas %90 of the time). So the split that is unique between Ginsberg and Roberts is %20.

No, that is not a radical, world upending difference. Liberals controlled the Supreme Court all through the 60s, 70s, and most of the 80s. Didn’t have some grim, transformative effect on everything.

So I repeat, that it’s not going to be some HUGE difference. My day-to-day life with President Trump is going to be %95+ identical to my life with President Clinton. And that would be true for President Cruz as well.


#11

The difference between a casserole recipe that has enough arsenic to kill you and one that has no arsenic is only 1%, I guess that means eating poison casserole would be no big deal.

Or…maybe…the percentage of difference is not what is relevant. Maybe the level of importance that the difference will make is what matters.

it seems like stating the obvious is becoming more and more necessary since Trump decided to run for president.


#12

[quote=“RET423, post:11, topic:49194”]
The difference between a casserole recipe that has enough arsenic to kill you and one that has no arsenic is only 1%, I guess that means eating poison casserole would be no big deal.

Or…maybe…the percentage of difference is not what is relevant. Maybe the level of importance that the difference will make is what matters.

it seems like stating the obvious is becoming more and more necessary since Trump decided to run for president.
[/quote]You’ve been predicting the American apocalypse since before I was born. Yet you’re fine. It’s a mental problem, not a real one.

Which one of Obama’s policies have directly altered your life today? What would you have done differently today if Mitt Romney or John McCain were president?


#13

Your speak as a child, utterly dogmatic about things which you are fully aware that you know nothing about.

If you are under the impression that such foolishness will inspire the same reaction that you glean from your childish peers you have much more to learn than the obvious.


#14

CWolf quite obviously doesn’t pay attention to what’s going on around him any further than what CNN or MSNBC are putting out, which is typical of those raised in the atmosphere fomented by our ridiculous public school system. Nobody who’s older than 40 years of age can rationally be so completely oblivious to what’s been going on since 2007–the year that the Democrats re-took control of Congress. If they CAN’T see it, they are deliberately wearing blinders, plugging their ears and deliberately singing “Yah, yah, yah” over and over.


#15

[quote=“RET423, post:13, topic:49194”]
Your speak as a child, utterly dogmatic about things which you are fully aware that you know nothing about.

If you are under the impression that such foolishness will inspire the same reaction that you glean from your childish peers you have much more to learn than the obvious.
[/quote]This post pretty much encapsulates exactly why your side usually loses.


#16

My conscience is no more okay with what Hillary wants to do than what Trump wants to do. Not interested in choosing between Hitler and Stalin.


#17

FC - you do realize, do you not, that the election of Clinton will almost certainly mean illegals will continue streaming over our southern border, their ultimate legitimization and eventual citizenship? Democrat politicians view this “southern invasion” as a Democrat voter recruitment tool. We’re talking millions of new Democrat voters.

That likelihood will ultimately and effectively eliminate any possibility of a Repub/conservative ever being elected president again. Conservatives/Repubs being elected to Congress in significant numbers likewise will be negatively impacted.


#18

The entire Congress of both Party’s wants the border open and illegals to ignore the Law with impunity, since they are the ones who control the purse strings and write the legislation I fail to see how a Clinton or Trump White House would be measurably different on border security.


#19

Exactly, there is zero tolerance for hard work, truth, serious contemplation using critical thinking skills and facts in the Clinton/Trump electorate pool; or “your side” for short.

Just say “stuff” as if it were true as long the “stuff” you are saying seems to justify the “stuff” you are doing or want to do


#20

What I realize is that I don’t trust Trump not to do as badly as (and perhaps worse than) Hillary. He talks a good game, but his talk (like Hillary’s) is cheap.