Alabama Senate approves measure to ban all abortions


#181

Here’s a little thought experiment…

Ret, FC, Dave, Classical Teach, RWNJ, Q…

I think, without asking, that if I were threarting serious harm to anyone you know and care for, that if the only way to stop me was to kill me and you had the means to do so, you would, as would I.

Would you still do it if it meant you might be arrested and convicted of a crime?

How about if I were about to do apparent harm to a stranger. If the only means of stopping me were to kill me would you do it?

Would you still do it if it meant you might be arrested and convicted of a crime?

How many of you would kill me to save a 1 month old fetus?


#182

Please explain the parameters where I “know you are going to kill”, if what you mean is you are in a room full of pregnant women and you are systematically shoving a sword through them then you will die quickly if I have the means.

If you are talking about a mother who has made a premeditated choice to pay you who are an abortionist to kill her baby in a place and in a way that is legal then no; I work to change the laws that allow such barbaric behaviors to be conducted.

Killing in self defense of oneself or another cannot be premeditated by an individual, that is Anarchy which is the Ideology of drunks, democrats and children.

Since I answered your attempt at a “gotcha” question let’s see if you will answer mine.

If you saw a pregnant woman on a sidewalk who was facing a Leftist with a sword and you KNEW that the Leftist was going to plunge the sword into her belly but you also KNEW that only the baby would die; she would recover fully.

Would you stop the attack if you could knowing that only the baby would die and knowing that since you MUST act before the sword is plunged you might be prosecuted for assault or worse.

I would, how about you?


#183

It always intrigues me when the abortion discussion turns from abortion to “conservative states have more abortions and teen pregnancy.” It doesn’t matter, CSB. That’s an argument about what we should teach kids. It’s not an argument about whether abortion is right or wrong. And the supposed hypocrisy it represents also is a distraction from whether abortion is right or wrong. We can all accept your claim here, and it does nothing to change any of the previous arguments in this thread.


#184

The point is, if you care about abortion and the lives of unborn children, then there are things that people can do to limit the number of unborn children that are killed. For example, understanding that abstinence-only education doesn’t work. Or that funding long-lasting birth control will help reduce pregnancy.

But, as we’ve read in this thread a number of times, the idea that teens (or anyone for that matter) have casual sex is unacceptable, and if the consequence is an unwanted pregnancy, then they should be forced to have that child.

The idea that ending Roe will solve anything is just another step in the wrong direction that will increase misery with the justification that it saves lives.

It’s self-righteous hypocrisy at it’s worst. The solutions espoused by religion make things worse, not better.

Here’s the problem I see…In my world, I think the solutions I offer would reduce unwanted pregnancy and therefore limit abortion, but the side effect might be a more casual attitude toward sex and it would accept that while we can reduce unwanted pregnancies and by extension abortion it accepts that there will still be unwanted pregnancies that people will choose to abort.

I think those on the “religious right” say that the idea that people have causal (unmarried) sex is wrong so teaching kids about sex and contraception is wrong, even if it would lower accidental pregnancy and that there is no number of abortions that are deemed acceptable.


#185

There is NO evidence–objective OR subjective–that teaching children sex as early as age 6 or 7 “reduces” post-puberty sex in the slightest. There IS objective evidence that abstinence DOES, however. There is absolute PROOF that those who practice abstinence faithfully NEVER have unintended pregnancies. It would seem to me that’s self-evident to even the most die-hard libertines.


#186

I don’t know how any of the info you provided was determined. I only know that sources I trust (on Christian radio, which I can’t link to) tell a different story.


#187

Please explain. Especially since saving innocent lives is utterly righteous.


#188

Beautiful response, Papa! I can only add that today our children and young adults have been so indoctrinated on having sex outside of marriage–with MULTIPLE partners is so ingrained in them that it is almost hopeless that they might return to traditional moral values. If all of us could practice abstinence, there’d be no STDs, no unwanted pregnancies, no abortions, no broken hearts, women would be respected by men and vice versa. Of course, that is almost a utopian society, so I’m not betting on a change anytime soon, but it’s nice to dream.


#189

Of course, but there’s no evidence that teaching kids abstinence results in increased abstinence. To the contrary, there is evidence that suggest that teen pregnancy is higher where abstinence is taught.


#190

That’s one way to avoid having to deal with evidence. Wave it off as untrustworthy. Only beleive sources that say what you want.


#191

I think I read a stat that overwhelmingly (75%?), women having abortions were considered poor. Having another child for a family in poverty makes everyone worse off.


#192

First, I didn’t suggest that 6 or 7 was the right age to teach kids about sex. Next, I never said it reduced sex, I said teaching kids about sex and how to protect themselves from pregnancy reduces unwanted pregnancy which in turn reduces abortion.

That does not mean that you encourage kids to have sex or that it’s ok or a good thing. To the contrary, you teach then that waiting is one of the choices (the best choice) they can make and why it’s a good thing (mostly for emotional reasons), but in the end, accept that you cannot control what you daughters decide to do with their vagina’s or your sons and their penis’. Chances are if you teach strict abstinence, all you get is children that hide their sexual activity from you. This has the advantage, for those of you that think strict abstinence is best, of believing that your children are not sexually active when they (about 50/50 chance**) are. It does make their lives and the relationships with you more stressful though, admittedly, teens are all different and some will chose abstinence on their own, but for those who do not, now they will bear the guilt of defying you as their parent, the fear of you finding out and having to cope with the decision they made and only the internet and friends to turn to for advice.

**In 2011–2013, among unmarried 15–19-year-olds, 44% of females and 49% of males had had sexual intercourse.2 These levels have remained steady since 2002.


#193

This is like saying those that don’t drink and drive will never get in a car accident (DUH!). But we know people will choose drink and drive. Deal with reality. We know, no matter how much you preach to teens about not having sex they are going to do it. And worse, when you don’t teach teens about sex, when they decide to do it, they are more likely to get pregnant.

So there REALISTIC choice before you is, accept the fact that teens are going to have sex and try to prevent unwanted pregnancy, or teach teens not to have sex and deal with higher rates of pregnancy.

In my experience as a teen and 20 something, it was always, and I MEAN always the girls I dated if they had very religious upbringing they were more likely to want to act out sexually and take risks.


#194

Here is why pregnancy amoung teens is declining…

The proportion of U.S. females aged 15–19 who used contraceptives the first time they had sex has increased, from 48% in 1982 to 79% in 2011–2013.2


#195

You can try to keep your spirits up by claiming that all of the failed approaches that your Party has embraced for decades in an attempt to eradicate the consequences of the morally bankrupt lifestyle that you advocate are just now starting to work, but the truth is that your Parties moral bankruptcy is what is being rejected more and more every year.

The days of your holocaust are numbered and the most embarrassing and shameful period in US history is coming to an end.


#196

You didn’t actually address the content. Noted.


#197

BTW, I want to be clear, I don’t have a problem teaching abstinence. It’s the “only” part that’s the problem.


#198

You mean your ridiculous stats that are supposed to attribute improved behavior of teens with claims from the most irresponsible of teens that they are now responsibly acting irresponsible?

Keep whistling through that graveyard.


#199

Well, that’s certainly one one to look at it. I was thinking more the stat that proves your little fantasy that the birth rate has dropped due to increasing abortion is just that, a fantasy.


#200

So you believe that killing 1 MILLION babies in the womb every year has no effect on the birth rate??? Just how stupid must one be these days to be a Democrat?