Alabama Senate approves measure to ban all abortions


#21

I know you wouldn’t let a little thing like evidence (and the fact that support it) get in the way of your perception, but here is the reality.

The state of Colorado, which since 2009 has in effect been conducting an experiment to test the validity of the claim that offering free BC to poor women could have a substantial effect on the number of unwanted pregnancies, and by extension, the number women seeking abortions. Of course, this was done over the objection of Republicans (Who I presume, like yourself who assume that only sluts want BC), oh and of course the program couldn’t use public funds so it was funded privately. The state offered free intrauterine devices and implants to teenagers and poor women. The results were pretty “startling.”

The birthrate among teenagers across the state plunged by 40 percent from 2009 to 2013, while their rate of abortions fell by 42 percent, according to the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment. There was a similar decline in births for another group particularly vulnerable to unplanned pregnancies: unmarried women under 25 who have not finished high school.


#22

Don’t bother arguing with csbrown. You’ll get NO WHERE. You’ll go round and round and round in circles with him/her. I don’t respond to him/her anymore.

It seems to me that for all the sex education in public schools, colleges and other venues, American women would know by now that having intercourse CAN cause pregnancy. DUH. Even this Catholic girl who grew up before birth control pills, etc., I knew that if I had intercourse (married or not) I could become pregnant. And, medically speaking, many of the artificial birth control pills and bc inserts are abortifacients. I don’t know of any that are not. But, I’m not up on that stuff anymore. All I know is that one minute we’re praising women’s intelligence and strength, the next we’re saying women are too stoopid and weak to know that they can get pregnant if they have sexual intercourse. And so, like most things in this country, the “solution” is to make another human being pay for their mistake.


#23

Funny how in states where people are more likely to proclaim their Christianity (and one can assume advice like your’s and Caroline’s) unplanned teen birthrates are higher.

image

Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26819200_Religiosity_and_teen_birth_rate_in_the_United_States

This is why you don’t argue with me anymore :smirk:


#24

BS on a shingle. I can make up any such “graph” you’d like to show exactly the opposite.


#25

Of course you can “make up a graph”, but the reason you don’t is that your graph wouldn’t contain data collected using scientific analysis and methods and you’d know I’ll call you out on it.

In fairness though, I didn’t cite a source, I thought it was included in the graph, Edited.

And just some plain facts you can look up yourself…

Top 10 states with highest teen birth rates:

Mississippi
New Mexico
Texas
Arkansas
Arizona
Oklahoma
Nevada
Tennessee
Kentucky
Georgia

Top 10 most conservatively religious states:

Mississippi
Alabama
South Carolina
Tennessee
Louisiana
Utah
Arkansas
North Carolina
Kentucky
Oklahoma

Hmmm…

Here is a map where the highest rates of teen pregnancy, helps make the “picture” a little clearer (the source on this is the CDC).

And here is a map, according to Pew of the most religious states:

image

EDIT:

In fairness to you, you might try to argue that while teen pregnancy is higher in the dark red states above, that at least part of the reason why is that teens are more likely to be married in those states. That said, I wonder how many of those are “shotgun weddings”?

That said, let’s look at the divorce rate by state…

(source: US Census)

I could do Obesity, income, graduation rates and they would all look fairly similar…Wonder why that is?


#26

How about the number of abortions? THAT would skew your so-called “data” considerably.


#27

Well let’s see…

image

(CDC data) Abortions per-capita

There may be something to that…buuuuut…Let’s not get ahead of ourselves…

Let’s look at the availability of abortion clinics by state…

Looks like the same states that high rates of teen pregnancy also have 5 or fewer abortion clinics to serve the entire state. Many have just one.

Now, this brings us to a few more questions…

  1. How many women would get an abortion but cannot?
  2. How many have used undocumented measures to have an abortion?
  3. How many women from the states the highest teen birth rates have gone to other states to acquire an abortion?

#28

Or, you could surmise that the most “religious” states are those less likely to promote abortion on demand. Notice that the states with the most abortion clinics, for some reason, perform the most abortions. Coincidence? I doubt it.
The abortion industry was INVENTED to stop the growth in population of brown and black people. Read up on Margaret Sanger sometime if you doubt it. That is WHY PP abortuaries are located in, or in very close proximity, to minority neighborhoods. To make it more “convenient” for black and brown women to access abortions.


#29

You’re absolutely correct, Papa! It is just lately that blacks are realizing that abortions are highest in the black population. Ol’ Maggie was not just a rabid racist, she was also a rabid anti-Semite. She and Hitler were philosophical twins. One of her gleaming quotes is: “Birth control must ultimately lead to a cleaner race.” “…we want to exterminate the negro population.” And my favorite: "The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.” New York has become the supreme model of existence according to Ol’ Maggie.


#30

Abortions are more prevalent among poor people, regardless of race. Black people tend to be poorer and therefore have more abortions per-capita.

While I can’t say for sure that there weren’t any people who thought of abortion as a way to limit minorities and promoted this idea. Today, I think abortions have more to do with poverty and no one in the Democratic party (despite what Billy Graham says) are using abortions to eliminate a significant part of their constituency.

I looked for a statistic that showed abortion rates of different ethnicity where families were in the highest 20% of income earners.

If you are right and abortions focus on black people, than the rate for abortion among affluent blacks should be significantly higher for blacks than whites.

I suspect that rates between affluent blacks and other minorities would be similar to affluent whites. This would lend evidence to the idea that abortions have more to do with levels of income rather than race. I can’t prove it because I can’t find stats on it…

If abortion clinics are closer to black neighborhoods, it’s because blacks are disproportionately poor.


#31

You can obfuscate all you like, CSB, but the FACT is that PP was formed to reduce the number of births among minorities…period. Why do you suppose that Hispanics are a consistently larger percentage of the minority population than blacks? Fact is, the percentage of blacks (roughly 13%) has remained fairly static for decades now, while the Hispanic population has grown from 5% to almost 20% in that same time period.


#32

Fact: 9% of immigrants are black, 44% are of Latino or Hispanic origin. That’s why.


#33

Conservatives have a choice. You can go the extreme route support what Alabama and Missouri have done and run the risk of the “progressives” taking the House, Senate and the presidency. If that happens, they will push for very late term abortions and killing live births. Or you can tone it down, compromise with those who oppose them, and get part of what you want.

I am opposed to both sides of the extremes on the issue. So is President Trump. You can heap your ridicule on me. I’d tell you the same thing to your face. No woman who has been raped or has been subject to incest should be forced to carry a child to term. That is my position, and I will have trouble supporting a politician who supports the extreme anti-abortion issue. I’ll leave the ballot blank before I will support that. I have done it in the past.


#34

You are correct. And(IMO) it was cynically timed to be shot down before RBG dies. Roe is at least a 5-4 affirmative right now(Roberts is firmly against overturning and I’ve heard that Kavanaugh is not inclined to overturn Roe). I think they’re worried that if we get a pro-life supreme court, and then someone passes such a bill - it may be upheld. Doing this now ensures it will be shot down, and with such fresh precedent, even if Trump replaces RBG and Beyer with pro-life justices, they will most likely refuse to even hear a new case, so Roe will stand.

The death penalty is carried out as revenge for deliberate murder. So unless the fetus deliberated murdered someone, it’s not deserving of retribution.

I unironically think we should be executing easily 1,000x as many people as we do, and without all of the appeals. Duterte and Bolsonaro have the right idea.

That’s exactly what they ought to support. Because it’s the most effective way. Obama’s birth control mandate was quietly the most pro-life legislation in history. Abortions fell faster under Obama than any other president since Roe was established.

And that’s just insurance coverage. OTC pills, and universal free access to IUDs would virtually eliminate unwanted pregnancies.


#35

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but the line above is just pure crap. There is no significant number in either Dems of so-called Progressives that want to kill children after they are born. By definition that’s not abortion, it’s murder.

The term “post-birth abortion” is about as stupid and senseless as “married bachelor”.


#36

Shhhh…Don’t tell Dave that.


#37

I’m sure that 10’s of millions of democrats are as sickened by this as I am. That does NOT include the Governor and legislature of Virginia. I am unaware of ANY prominent democrat office holder or presidential candidate who has CLEARLY denounced the Virginia infanticide statute. Weasel words and evasions don’t count.


#38

Pure crap? Then why did the governor of Virginia talk about it in public and why did the Andrew Cuomo of New York sign a more liberal abortion bill? I’ve learned to look at trends over my 70 year life, and I see one here.

If you think that it is murder, then you should be pushing back people in your party as I am pushing back people in my party on this issue. As I’ve said before, I am a Republican but not a sheep. I don’t follow the party line on major issues when I don’t agree with it.


#39

Few thoughts. As I’ve already stated, even if you believe that Northham would allow the intentional active killing of a child moments after birth, this is not the position of the overwhelming majority of the left, any more than white supremacy represents a tiny portion on the right.

Now, having said that. If you watch liberal news sources, you probably think that white supremacy is more widely accepted on the right and baby killing is more widely represented on the left. I would submit that these are perceptions fed to us by media rather than the objective truth of what happens in the lives of real people.

As far as Northhams comment, this was pretty hotly deliberated already. I disagree with your characterization of it, however, I will agree that Northam, as a politician, should know the importance of clarifying questions before they are asked rather than assuming that everyone will understand the context of the comments they make. I will also admit that his answer was extremely ambiguous and unclear and that he has, since the incident, not done enough to come out and clearly state the context of his answer.

Having said that, a spokesman for his office said: "the governor’s comments were “absolutely not” a reference to infanticide but rather “focused on the tragic and extremely rare case in which a woman with a nonviable pregnancy or severe abnormalities went into labor.”.

Now we can argue the moral issues that surround allowing a severely deformed child or a child with a severe life long birth defect to die naturally rather than taking measures to prolong its life, but characterizing this as “baby killing” is a bit disingenuous.

Point being that I think there’s a disconnect what the vast majority of those on the left support and how the right perceives the left as a group. Again, in fairness, I think that goes on on the left as well and I think that is the state of media combined with how people receive information in the age of the internet.

As far as pushing back…I do. I don’t beleive that “lat term” abortions should be allowed when there’s no medical reason to do so (sidestepping for a moment the issue of when late-term abortions are called in the case of rape). However, anyone that beleive that you should be able to abort perfectly healthy child weeks, days or even moments before birth does not have my support.

That said, what if the only choices we’re left with come from the most extreme views?

Ban all abortions under all circumstances

Allow abortions under any circumstance

Frankly, I don’t support either position.


#40

Your (mostly) right. That is the state of politics we live in and it’s shameful and it exists at both extremes in both parties because of extreme “news” media has such and intense grip on this nation and I suspect it will be our downfall.

Idiocracy was supposed to be a silly parody, who knew it would be so prophetic?