America - The Center Right Nation


#1

A few months ago I was eviscerated by some on this site for suggesting that, in light of a radical Leftist’s election for a second term in spite of serial failures - Obamacare, his pathetic economic policies and one foreign relations debacle after another, America may no longer be the “center-right” nation we grew up with and assumed she might still be. My public “gutting” took various forms, but always came back to the argument that Obama prevailed in 2012 because Romney was not a conservative. Implying that what the Republican party had to do was nominate a conservative - that such a nomination is what our right of center nation wanted/required.

Well, this year we have a Republican candidate with unquestioned conservative bona fides - Ted Cruz - and forget the national vote - he can’t get more than 22% of the REPUBLICAN primary vote - except perhaps, in his home state. Instead, Republican voters are overwhelmingly placing in nomination a man who is NOT a conservative - Donald Trump; a man who favors most of the central tenets of Obamacare (call it “Trumpcare”); a man who supports Planned Parenthood, the KELO decision, etc.

Granted, Trump favors securing the border - but so does Cruz. Trump wants a strong military - but so does Cruz. Trump likely hasn’t even read the constitution - Cruz has actively defended it in court. Cruz wants to take down Obamacare, stop funding PP and opposes KELO. I could go on, but I won’t.

The point is, the people of this nation - BY THEIR CHOICE - have decided to select their president from an election consisting of another Leftist (one who wants to continue Obama’s legacy) and another non-conservative (who on some important issues is considerably left of center). This, in spite of the fact a solid, constitutional conservative was available.

I simply point this out. Are we a right of center nation? I think it a fair question.


#2

We vote for the person who connects with us and what we care about. Mitt struggled in this area. It was never his ideology. Nor is ideology Clinton’s problem.

I have pointed this out on many occasions. Look to every new media election since 1960, and the most charismatic candidate won in all but a single case. Nixon, who totally lacked charisma, absolutely eviscerated the modestly charismatic McGovern. But every other election, Kennedy V Nixon, Johnson V Goldwater, Carter V Ford, Reagan V Carter, Reagan V Mondale, (Bush V Dukakis is really a wash, neither was charismatic), Clinton V Bush, Clinton V Dole, Bush V Gore, Bush V Kerry, Obama V McCain, Obama V Romney.

11 elections, with only one exception. And Nixon is widely regarded as the most skilled politician in his generation, and possibly of all time. There is no equivalent to Richard Nixon, today. As far as I’m concerned, charisma is well over half the battle. It may even be closer to %90. It’s really hard to say exactly. Ideological orthodoxy is not even close.


#3

Well, considering neither the Dems nor the Republican’ts are Right of Center, I’d say, “NO” we are not a center right nation.
The people may still be, but the Gooberment is definitely not.


#4

Good point, CW, charisma has always been a significant leadership characteristic. It certainly seems to be playing into this race. However, the point remains, given a choice between Trump and Cruz, by a WIDE margin not even Republicans are supporting the one who is right of center on every important issue. Instead they are supporting the candidate to the left of center on some issues that are thought of as being core principles of the Right.

If Trump and Cruz were ideologically similar on all the core center/right issues, then Trump being in the lead by 2 to 1 based on charisma would be understandable. But the two men differ greatly.

Without trying to be humorous, I think it entirely possible the idea that America is a “center-right nation” on principle has passed into mythology, perhaps having been replaced instead by an America drawn to the biggest bullsh*tter. But, who knows?


#5

C’mon, man. Wake up.
Are you aware that Texas is having voting booth issues? It seems a number of people have cast votes for Trump, which ended up going for Rubio. So, as I have been preaching for years, the GOP is as corrupt as the Dems. They think you are stoopid, Mike. They think you’ll back their play, in spite of their misgivings. When are you gonna say, "ENOUGH!"
Sure, Cruz is more conservative. That means squat. Talk is cheap, especially when it comes from politicians.
We are in the midst of a political revolution. We are sick and tired of being sick and tired. If Trump can straighten ANY of this out, he’ll have done better than what we have had, the last twenty years.
This is not a year of conservative or liberal. This is not an election of policies. This is a fight for the survival of the USA, and those you champion are just as complicit in this as anyone. We must crush their power hungry arses so they will know they are one election away from irrelevancy.
We need an attack dog, on our side. I’d much rather have a pit bull, than a poodle.
But, you can go back to your Trump bashing.


#6

[quote=“MDMikeB, post:4, topic:48368”]
Good point, CW, charisma has always been a significant leadership characteristic. It certainly seems to be playing into this race. However, the point remains, given a choice between Trump and Cruz, by a WIDE margin not even Republicans are supporting the one who is right of center on every important issue. Instead they are supporting the candidate to the left of center on some issues that are thought of as being core principles of the Right.

If Trump and Cruz were ideologically similar on all the core center/right issues, then Trump being in the lead by 2 to 1 based on charisma would be understandable. But the two men differ greatly.

Without trying to be humorous, I think it entirely possible the idea that America is a “center-right nation” on principle has passed into mythology, perhaps having been replaced instead by an America drawn to the biggest bullsh*tter. But, who knows?
[/quote]It’s mostly about framing. Americans of all political ideologies have very similar desires. Take health care. Some people want no government involvement, because they think government will make the problem worse. A free market will lead to best quality care and innovation. Others think the private for-profit system has already failed, and America would do well to emulate government operated or paid for systems in Europe or elsewhere.

Now you can feel those are “totally opposite” views. I disagree. They both have the same utilitarian goal.
Both groups want to improve quality of care and with very few exceptions, believe that everyone should have access to needed medical care.

Their difference is entirely one of method and process. It is not a difference in goals. The heated debate is not actually over the outcome. It’s over the process. And the reason the process is fought so hard is because of how each group views the other’s plan. Conservatives think that government run healthcare will ration care and people will die. Liberals think the free market approach will leave the indigent untreated and people will die.

Not only do both sides have the same goal, both sides have the exact same fear of a negative outcome. The only thing that separates liberals and conservatives on the issue of healthcare, is how they view the process. Which way can actually bring about the common result they both want, and avoid the bad outcome they both fear.

Thus the only thing dividing them is how to actually do it.

With a handful of exceptions, most people really don’t care how things get done. They just want things to work. Yes, they have ideas about what seems more likely to work and what doesn’t. But we’ve all seen great plans fall apart, and things that sound like a horrible idea turn out very well.

So what the person really needs in order to vote, is not adherence to a process. Instead, it’s the ability to accomplish things. The exact process is not so important.

People will always vote for the person they can believe in. The person they think can accomplish the most. And that person isn’t necessarily one that follows the old plans very closely.


#7

It isn’t a matter of left/right/center. It is a matter of an elite ruling class versus true representative government. Or as Michelle Malkin has so eloquently put it “bipartisan beltway crapweasels screwing America”.


#8

Hope the loose cannon, unprincipled “attack dog” some of you are backing doesn’t turn on you.

Thank you guys for cluing me in on what’s up. You know. perhaps you guys are on to something - Maybe a loud, undisciplined, inconsistent, unprincipled liar with a spotty track record on the issues is really the way to go.

Yeah, I’m down with that. Let’s all chant - “Donald, Donald, Donald, Donald”.

Hey, Donald - “Ever hear of David Duke - he says he’s voting for you.” How do you feel about that?" “No, Donald, not The Duke - not John Wayne; David Duke. You know, the KKK”. “WTF, you’ve never heard of the KKK or David Duke, but you wouldn’t want to turn down the support of any person or group you don’t know anything about?” “No shit, you don’t know about them?” “Donald, the freakin’ Klan, the Ku Klux Klan, Donald”. “Oh, you thought I said the Ku Klux Klan - I did say the Ku Klux Klan!!” “What, Hillary stepped on your earpiece?”

Yeah, this is going to work out real good.

ROTFLMAO!!

Heaven help us!!


#9

I can’t tell from your post if you are backing Trump or Sanders.


#10

So if they both oppose TPP they must be two peas in a pod as far as you are concerned. If that is the case then I suppose you will be equally happy with Hillary or Marco?


#11

I will admit that I was profoundly wrong about the GOP rank and file, I have been operating on the premise that they are Conservative and they do respect the Constitution but have been duped by the Establishment GOP into thinking the Republican Party is a good fit for them; clearly I was wrong about this.

The rank and file GOP are just as morally bankrupt as the Establishment GOP and they absolutely do not want a Conservative with proven character, Cruz is as good as it gets and Trump is Bill Clinton with a speech impediment; they are choosing the morally bankrupt liar with no conscience without hesitation.

So the Republican Party is certainly NOT “Center Right”, they are Liberals who want to be ruled with an iron fist; they just want to pick the fist instead of having it picked for them.

But I will not yet concede to the statement that America is no longer a “Center Right Nation” and I still believe that America would choose a clear spoken Conservative in the General Election if such a candidate could win a nomination.

But I am through calling for the eradication of the GOP, they are the perfect Party for their rank and file as evidenced by how they are voting when they have a genuine choice; the GOP rejects the Constitution and Conservatism at every level when they have a choice including the rank and file.


#12

RET - I completely agree with your first three sentences and hope you might be correct about the nation itself still being center right.

When I heard Cruz announce his intent to run I believed - naively it would appear - that we would FINALY have a solid conservative to support. A conservative to run in the general election. I thought any opposition within ranks would come from the usual suspects - the RNC/GOP.

I am as stunned as you are that the rejection of a solid, proven conservative is coming from Republican voters - the rank and file - like some on this site who have been demanding a conservative candidate only to turn their backs on him when he appears.

We will have spent 8 horribly tragic years under Obama only to end up with a choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

You and I have sometimes butted heads, but I know you work hard, you care deeply and you have conviction and integrity.

Not much else I can say.


#13

[quote=“MDMikeB, post:12, topic:48368”]
RET - I completely agree with your first three sentences and hope you might be correct about the nation itself still being center right.

When I heard Cruz announce his intent to run I believed - naively it would appear - that we would FINALY have a solid conservative to support. A conservative to run in the general election. I thought any opposition within ranks would come from the usual suspects - the RNC/GOP.

I am as stunned as you are that the rejection of a solid, proven conservative is coming from Republican voters - the rank and file - like some on this site who have been demanding a conservative candidate only to turn their backs on him when he appears.
[/quote]If only Duncan Hunter had run in 2008. Then we’d have had a solid conservative, with a proven track record to support.


#14

Duncan Hunter never stood against his own Party’s leader on the floor of the House and he never had adequate financing to meet the voters in conventional ways, he was a solid Conservative as far as voting record was concerned but there is just no comparison between his performance and the one man show that Cruz has been forced to perform due to his own Party turning their backs on their campaign promises.

Your attempt at sarcasm falls as flat as your justifications for excusing Trump, I expect you are quite pleased with the GOP these days.


#15

[quote=“RET423, post:14, topic:48368”]
Duncan Hunter never stood against his own Party’s leader on the floor of the House and he never had adequate financing to meet the voters in conventional ways, he was a solid Conservative as far as voting record was concerned but there is just no comparison between his performance and the one man show that Cruz has been forced to perform due to his own Party turning their backs on their campaign promises.

Your attempt at sarcasm falls as flat as your justifications for excusing Trump, I expect you are quite pleased with the GOP these days.
[/quote]My point is that we’ve had these options before. There is nothing “shocking” about The Conservative Standard Bearer failing. It’s happened before. This is nothing new. And that’s because(as I keep saying), most people don’t care much about orthodoxy, and they never did.

If Ronald Reagan had looked and sounded like Dennis Kucinch, while holding all of the same policy positions, George Bush would have been the nominee in 1980, and probably have lost to Carter.

Cruz isn’t being rejected for his conservative policies. He’s being rejected because of his personality and body language. He has an incredibly creepy smile. It’s very off putting, and that puts him in a place where he’s permanently at a disadvantage. His conservative creds are actually boosting him. If he ran on Rubio’s platform, he would have had Santorum/Jindal levels of support.
The reason Ted Cruz is stuck in 2nd, is because of Ted Cruz the candidate, not because of his conservative ideology.


#16

I don’t altogether disagree. Cruz’s problem is partly his somewhat abrasive “style” and partly his looks. I sent his campaign an e-mail suggesting that he deliver his speeches as if he were speaking one-on-one to someone in the audience. One-on-one, his language changes and he’s personable. Speaking to large audiences, he seems to be preaching a sermon and that turns some people off.