Any pistol shooters here?


#1

Traditionally I’m a rifle shooter. The last pistol (other than my Ruger Mark1 that I still have) that I had was a Astra A100 9mm.

No frills double action. 17+1 was ok for the price ($200 in 1998) but it was on the bulky side and in my experience wasn’t very accurate so I sold it (actually threw it in as part of a trade for a rifle).

Recently a friend of mine who is ex-law enforcement but still trains police on how to draw, shoot and holster drills has been dragging me out to the range to learn pistol tactics. He’s been letting me use his Glock 17. Personally, I don’t like it. It just doesn’t fit my hand right and it takes me an extra second to find my grip when doing drills.

Before anyone asks, I probably won’t CC and if I do I’ll probably just pick up a pistol specifically for CC. Far as home defense, I don’t expect I’ll ever have to use it for this reason, but it’s nice to know it’s available if I need it. So it will be mostly for training (which means accessories like a good holster will be important). Probably interested in a single action piece.

I went to a gun show this weekend and held and dry fired about 2 dozen different pistols. I really don’t want to spend a lot on my next pistol because I expect that after I spend some time with it I will probably refine what I like and don’t like, including possibly changing calibers. So I’m thinking in the $500ish range.

As far as feel and trigger I liked the Walther PPQ (though it was at the high end of the price range). I held a Sig P320 and while the trigger was a little softer the break was still clean and the price on the one I saw was fantastic ($399), but now that I’ve come home to price that I realize I probably should have bought it…lol.

Other pistols I saw and liked for ergonomics were the S&W 2.0, IWI’s Masda (apparently just came out) wThe H&K VP9 (though these were a bit pricey@$725 and the Springfield XD-9 (used was $399).

One other pistol, I’ve never heard of, is by Century Arms CENiK, but the dealers there were bragging it up.

Figure there are probably a few shooters here and for once it would be nice to talk about something we aren’t on opposite sides on…

Thanks, guys


#2

So you like guns? Are you in favor of the right to carry a concealed weapon?

I’m all for the Second Amendment and the right to carry. But personally, I dislike guns because they make very loud noises and I hate loud noises. I’ve shot a few times, but I just can’t get excited about it. I also am not aware of anyone that might hate me enough to consider hurting me.

Good thing, because I happen to live in Maryland where there are more corrupt and redundant gun laws per square mile than in any other state.


#3

Personally, I don’t think anyone should carry any firearm for self-protection that doesn’t start with “.4-something”. That’s why I usually carry my Beretta .45 caliber “Cougar” along with an extra magazine. It only holds 8 rounds + 1 up the pipe, but with the extra magazine, that means 17 live rounds available, which SHOULD suffice in most instances.


#4

It’s the people you DON’T know that should prompt you to arm yourself…especially in a place like Maryland.


#5

I really enjoy shooting, yes. I own several.

Without limits, no, with limits, yes.

Same, which is why I can’t imagine ever having to use a gun to defend myself, but that doesn’t mean I won’t be prepared in case I do. Fortune favors the prepared.

I lived in Frederick MD for 12 years and I went to school there to become a police officer, but right before the Acadamy I decided it was not for me.


#6

First, let me say, my brother, a retired Marine, is also a .45 snob :slight_smile: You two would get along great. He loves his Colt model 1911 and swears by it.

I read a very in-depth article that attempted to look at all aspects of using firearms for protection considering things that move beyond the obvious (stopping power, number of rounds, etc). The conclusion was pretty straight forward. In any caliber .380 and above, what really matters is rounds on target. Thus a person who might be less capable with a .45 are obviously better off with a smaller caliber.

Most people put in the position to defend themselves will probably not be faced with a 250lb psychotic meathead (where a .45 would shine)…Rather most people who are shot tend to re-evaluate their situation after being shot.

Of course, you are ex-law enforcement so you are aware of extreme cases and would rather be prepared, which I understand.


#7

I know of a Fort Worth police officer back in the day when the PD issued .38 Special revolvers to all of its officers. This officer answered a call to a bar in a mostly-black neighborhood where there was a fight going on. When he arrived alone, he encountered a HUGE guy with slabs of muscle “stacking the furniture” as we say, whipping everyone in the place. He told the guy to stop and the man turned towards him and advanced. He drew his .38 Special and told the man to halt, which he didn’t do. The officer shot 6 times, hitting him 3 times in the chest. The guy walked past him, ripped the pistol from his hand and threw it into a corner and left the building. A couple of hours later, the same officer was told a gunshot victim had come into the ER at the local “charity” hospital. X-Rays showed he had 3 bullets lodged in the musculature of his chest…not a single round having penetrated the ribcage! That officer went back to the PD, tossed his issue .38 on the desk sergeant’s desk and went to his car and retrieved his personally-owned .45 revolver. No one had the guts to tell him he couldn’t do that and Fort Worth eventually changed its policies on firearms.


#8

Like I said, being in law enforcement you are a lot more likey to come across a scenario like that.

Here are the ballistics between the .45, 9mm and .38 special. The 38 special can definitly be wofully under-powered.


#9

As far as SD is concerned, my primary concern is RELIABILITY = S&W revolver. The J frames are easy pocket carry and the AirLites are light but pricey.

When I CC, I carry a 340SC with 5 rounds of Buffalo Bore flat nose hard cast 38+P since I am more concrened with 4 legged critters (penetration) rather than 2 legged ones (expansion).


#10

For much of my tenure as Chief of Detectives, I carried a 1911 .45 Semi-auto. Someone once asked me why I carried a .45 when most of the department’s officers carried either .38 specials or .357 magnums. I always replied that I carried a .45 because nobody made a .46. My theory was that if I ever had to shoot someone (I never even DREW my weapon except on the range), it would be because I was scared to death and I didn’t want them to either keep coming or get up and shoot back. While my .45 was at the gunsmiths getting a minor issue repaired, I once carried a S&W .44 magnum revolver with a 4" barrel, but it weighed 50 OUNCES when loaded and tended to try and pull my pants down when hooked to my belt holster so I didn’t carry it for long. I did shoot a rattlesnake with it once and it put a blood-blister on the heel of my hand because I didn’t have a firm grip when I squeezed the trigger. Still, it blew the rattler into about 4 pieces. I guess you can say that was the ONE incident when I actually DID draw my weapon since I was on duty at the time in an open field looking for a stripped motorcycle.


#11

No common combat handgun round is a completely reliable manstopper.

Evan Marshall (I don’t know if he’s still in circulation or not; he used to write articles (frequently on stopping power of combat handgun rounds) in firearms periodicals) related a couple of glaring failures to stop with .45 ACP. In the one, two thugs attacked a man and his wife. So hubby drews his .45 and double-tapped thug #1 in the chest. He turned to engage thug #2, when his wife cried out because thug #1- with two bullets in his chest- stabbed her with a knife. So he double-tapped him again, and the thugs fled. He rushed his wife to the hospital (they were able to save her), in walked thug #1 with four rounds in his chest.

In another case, two perps gunned down a cop with a total of five rounds of .45 ACP. They were laughing and congratulating themselves and not paying him any attention when he struggled to a kneeling position, drew his service .38 Special, and dropped both thugs- with 158-grain semiwadcutters, no less.

Is .45 ACP a more effective and generally better defensive combat round than .38 Special? Yeah, certainly. But I also agree with CSB when he effectively said that it’s better to have a .38 you can handle than a .45 you can’t.


#12

My EDC is a Glock 23, soon to be replaced by a SW M&P 2.0 compact 9mm.


#13

I suppose a case can be made that if you punch a hole in an attacker, REGARDLESS of the caliber, that’s infinitely better than not being able to punch ANY hole. Most people, when shot, will flee from the shooter, even if all he has is a .22. It should be remembered that the .45 ACP was conceived as a stopper of the drugged-up Huks in the Philippines. I’ve SEEN people hit by a single .45 ACP round stop in their tracks and drop like a stone never to move again. We had a guy commit suicide while I was in Korea by shooting himself under the chin with a .45. Small entry hole but the EXIT hole was big enough to put a softball in. Admittedly, much of that was caused by hydro-shock, but it was a VERY effective way to end it all. I also know a guy who was shot in the chin by a .38 special (a fellow police officer). It broke his jaw and removed several teeth, but the round scooted around his head under the skin and exited close to the spine. He survived and was back on the job within 8 weeks.


#14

Just saw this on Grab-A-Gun

If I wasn’t in between jobs…I grab one at that price.


#15

Me, too. I’m an S&W fan. My first pistol was an S&W, Model 10, heavy barrel in .38 Special. I also have an S&W Model 29, .44 Magnum with an 8" barrel…the “Dirty Harry” gun, but chrome-finish. It came in a mahogany presentation box. First time I fired it on the indoor range, the rangemaster came running into see what was making all that noise. When fired, you can feel the air pressure hit you in the chest. I also have an S&W model 67 in .38 Special caliber in stainless steel. It’s the last revolver I carried as a police patrolman before being promoted to detective. I keep it loaded with AP02 hollow point rounds. Other than my Cougar .45 Beretta, it’s probably the first gun I’d grab in an emergency.


#16

Other pistols I’m considering in the $500ish range (all in 9mm for now)…

Sig P320
Walther PPQ
CZ 75
Springfield XD

I like the idea of the Sig with the removable trigger as a unit. Makes it easy to clean, replace, upgrade…

I’ve held them all and I like the feel of all of the ones I’ve listed (that’s why the Glock isn’t here, does not fit my hand at all). I dry fired the P320, the PPQ and the Springfield. I’m no expert on what a “great” trigger feels like, but I know a creepy, grainy and mushy feeling trigger and none of the pistols I got to test fire felt bad to me. First shot usually had a long pull and follow ups had very short, sharp resets…


#17

I also have a Belgian-made Browning HiPower in 9mm. Holds 13 + 1 up the pipe. It’s single action on the first shot, of course, but is accurate. It was used to commit a murder when I was still a detective. After the guy was convicted, the court returned it to the chattel mortgage holder (a local gun/hardware store) because he still hadn’t paid it off yet. Six months after I left the PD, I was walking by the store and saw the gun in the window. I went in and offered to buy it for what the guy still owed on it and the owner agreed. It still had the “State’s exhibit” sticker attached! Still does, for that matter.


#18

That is the exact order I’d place those in which I would buy, if I wasn’t going with the M&P.

I like Sigs generally, but they are often too proud of their product IMO. Not that they aren’t nice, just to me, they aren’t a big enough of an improvement over a Glock or M&P, or several other choices. The P320, and P365 are the exceptions to me. I’d be happy with either. Personally, I just love the M&P more.

I already have the full size M&P 9mm first generation, Pro Series (improved trigger from the factory). I love that pistol. The 2.0’s are even better.


#19

Please don’t make my choice any harder than it already is…:tired_face:


#20

I’m not used to being in so much agreement with you…lol…as I listed those in order of my preference.

Though, the P320 and PPQ are probably a tie in my book, which just really put it at price. Since the P320 is about $75-$100 less it wins…