Arizona audit election results...Drum roll please!

I’d like to know what the eventual end goal is for libs.

Is it a genderless world? Will we kill all males and it will be some wonder-woman-esque planet of the amazons? Will we kill every predator species until it’s just plant eaters left and everyone can be vegan? A world where only solar energy exists? A world without guns or knives or anything sharp? A world without white people? A world without religion except for Islam? A world where nobody leaves their home or touches anyone else because of covid unless they’re rich and famous?

These are only a few examples but I honestly feel like these are actual goals they are striving to achieve and humanity won’t be worth saving until we get there.

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Stop dealing in silly stereotypes.

I could easily misrepresent “Conservatives” and where would that get us?

If that’s how you genuinely feel it’s the result of where you get your information.

It’s funny because while the US certainly doesn’t enjoy the kind of lead it had in the post-WWII era, it is still far ahead when taking everything into account.

The fatalist attitude, as I told Guts is more likely a result of where you get information than anything else.

I agree. I think that the grand days for the United States are over. It is going to be downhill from here, and that is what the left wants.

If the void is filled by the Chinese Communists, the left wing people here and elsewhere are going to find out how bad things can be. Those who have had freedom and are losing it, like the people of Hong Kong and, perhaps before long, Taiwan, know the score. The stupid “Progressives” only see a chance to be dictators and “social warriors.” When a Chinese communist style government takes over, they will learn what they have lost.

I get my stereotypes and wild ideas from the people I work with. And they are Biden voters.

But you think these wild ideas are a majority of people who identify on the left.

I probably fall on the left in may respects, but I don’t support most/ all of what you wrote and I think most people on the left agree. I think there are people that believe as you say, but they are not even close to the majority of the people who identify as left politically.

The fact is, Tucker et al spend their days and nights trying to scare people like you that this is the case, but it’s not.

Why? Because most people make decisions emotionally, thus appeals to emotions like fear are the best way to influence and motivate people.

100% agree. This is why the mainstream media constantly appeals to people’s emotions (these days mostly fear). Yes, fox news does it too.

I work at a giant factory with a lot of people. I haven’t talked to one self proclaimed leftist whose ideas weren’t completely nuts

Nah; all we have to do is identify as vegan and female as we pick the bacon bits off our hairy chests…

The hard left leadership is trying their level best to put these “stereotypes” into practice (not for the sake of the stereotypes themselves, but as part of divide and conquer).

You say fatalist; I say realist. And yes, source of information is a factor, and I’ll argue to the death that it’s a factor not on the side of integrity for the left.

Again, these wild ideas are being pushed by the radical-left leadership.

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Well clearly it’s a sampling error.

To find ones with ideas that aren’t nuts, you have to go to a college campus. :upside_down_face:

In all seriousness, this left-leaning college professor rocks.

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Johnathan Haidt is awesome. I would love to know what some of the others here think about his work.

Summary: Living and learning in an echo chamber leads to virtually incurable ignorance. If you are an expert in your field you are able to cherry pick facts that validate your personal prejudice.

Money is the key. Alumni can have an impact. Withholding government (federal and state) funding can also be used.

Yes, this is not wrong. The USA (and the other liberal democracies) have great reserves, both materially, and politically.

I believe the breaking point for the US will come as a result of one or the other, or both together, of a military humiliation and a great economic depression. For Australia and New Zealand, the equivalent will probably come when the reality of American decline, and Chinese domination, is made manifest in some way. We can hope the future Chinese leadership will be smart and not to nationalistically assertive.

Not that your countries will break apart, although there may be a serious conflict between those who will accept Finlandization, and those who don’t want to. (To be fair, I think New Zealand will just accept it without any internal conflict.)

At the moment, one of the main fracture lines in the US is race. The Right has, for the last fifty years, been thoroughly imbued with the idea of equality before the law, and the acknowledegement that Blacks did not have it, nor the equivalent in civil society … especialy bad in the South but also in the North.
It was a tacit assumption that when they did get it, after the 1960s, they would, like various European immigrant groups which had been subject to discrimination – the Irish, the Jews – rapidly advance.

This hasn’t happened. Out of politeness, most people haven’t talked about the reasons why.

But now the Left want to talk about it, and put the blame on whites. No one really believes this, but even talking about it is unpleasant. So for the moment, the Right is essentially silent, except to rebuke those sections of the Right – if you want to call them that – which DO have an explanation: the genuine ‘white supremacists’ or, as some of them prefer to call themselves. ‘racial realists’. So far the latter remain a small minority on the Right, but that could change.

You have the same situation in Australia with the Aborigines, except that they are such a small proportion of your population, and isolated in rural areas, that it’s not really a major issue. Your Left is now propagating laugable nonsense in the schools about how advanced the Aborigines are, ‘indigenous knowledge’ and all that bs --so we’ll see how far this cancer eats into your educational system.

The real problem with the “it’s all the white man’s fault” stuff is summed up in an old Russian saying: you can’t fool life.

The Great Society and the subsequent destruction of two parent black households.

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Definitely a factor. And, let’s be fair … slavery did a lot to destroy the ‘family’ tradition among Blacks, since families could be broken up and individuals sold off.

To test this hypothesis, we would need to look at Black societies which did not have a ‘Great Society’ visited upon them … Jamaica, for example. Or sub-Saharan Africa. But let’s not go there. We don’t really know enough yet about ‘nature and nurture’ to be scientific in our investigations, to the extent that human society in general can be understood this way.

What we can agree on – I would hope – is that strengthening two-parent families is good, real education is good, getting people who want to advance, or want their children to advance, out of horrible environments is good.

If I were a multi-billionaire, I would open Science and Technical Boarding Schools, aimed at the children of low-income families. They would be modelled on the Michaela School in the UK, which gets fantastic results with its mostly non-white students. They would be located a long way from the ‘inner city’ moral disaster areas.

I would focus on hands-on science and technical subjects, and pay high salaries to attract good teachers. (As the Left take over the state education system, the supply of non-conformist teachers should increase.) (So I would surreptitiously fund the people who are push Critical Race Theory, and ideas like ’ “Correct Answers” are Racist’. The School Board of Portland Oregon, which teaches Black children that they are descended from Egyptians who had psionic powers, would be my model.)

And these schools would be very practical-oriented. It’s pointless to be able to answer questions on Ohm’s Law, and the formulas for resistance of circuits in series, and in parallel, if you haven’t soldered (or ‘snapped’) some resistors in series, and then in parallel, and measured their resistance with a multi-meter, and then had a good teacher draw a diagram and show why adding MORE resistors in parallel lowers the overall resistance.

They would also emphasize ‘cultural literacy’ – you don’t have to have read the Bible, but you had better know what a “Noah’s Ark” is. You don’t have to have read every Shakespeare play, but you had better know what the “Ides of March” mean. If you don’t, you won’t be able to understand the writing of literate authors.

In other words, they would supply kids from poor backgrounds with the sort of cultural capital that kids from the higher classes get at home, or used to.

IF I were a multi-billionaire. … and If we had some ham, we could have ham and eggs, if we had some eggs.

Slavery has been gone for over 150 years. Get over it.

It is important to realize that things weren’t always so. The black American family provides a stark example. From 1890 to 1950, black women had a higher marriage rate than white women. And in 1950, just 9% of black children lived without their father. By 1960, the black marriage rate had declined but remained close to the white marriage rate. In other words, despite open racism and widespread poverty, strong black families used to be the norm.

But by the mid-1980s, black fatherlessness skyrocketed. Today, only 44% of black children have a father in the home. In unison, the rate of black out-of-wedlock births went from 24.5% in 1964 to 70.7% by 1994, roughly where it stands today.

There are also readily available statistics showing the greatly higher chance of school dropout, petty criminal behavior leading to lifestyle criminality, unemployment of boys from single parent homes.


  1. School Choice including faith based institutions.

  2. Crackdown on deadbeat dads. Boot camp with job training.

  3. Women who are unwilling or unable to name a father on a birth certificate are deemed prima facie to be unfit and their child will be raised in an orphanage and put up for adoption. If the mother is financially responsible, this requirement will be waived but she will be ineligible for public assistance.

  4. Reform welfare laws to encourage marriage.

Some of these proposals may seem draconian but the incentive for bad behavior must be removed and reversed.

Throwing more money down the welfare toilet is of no benefit to the recipients or the taxpayers.

But it does wonders for the politicians. Just look at LBJ. He was panning to run again in 1968, which would have made him second only to FDR for time served in the presidency. He knew that passing the Great Society programs, with lots of give-aways, would insure his place in history. The trouble is, his Vietnam policy sent him packing.

I think Jonathan Haidt is wonderful. I bought The Righteous Mind (?) when it came out, and was very impressed with his understanding of how politically-engaged people think.

I know, from personal experience, that there are plenty of academics on the Left side of the barricades who are actually pretty sensible people. (Leftism and Rightism are, basically, best thought of as dispositions, not ideologies.) However, I also know, from personal communications with them, that they are increasingly worried about becoming targets of the Social Justice Warriors, and therefore, keep their mouths shut.

In academia, there are things which are true, but which you cannot now say, if you want to remain there and have a quiet life.

One area where many conservatives go wrong is to think that if someone doesn’t stand up and denounce an unConstitutional, or otherwise bad, government directive, or directive from their employer, that they are worthless people. So I have read hundreds of casual demands by rightwingers that someone in the military, or the police, should refuse to obey this or that order.

In other words, they should lose their job, lose any chance of getting a similar job, lose their pension … and when I have suggested that anyone who demands this of others should therefore share the financial burden of the principled resigner, I get silence.

One or two or three people can stand up for principle, and get financially compensated by patriotic equivalents of GoFundMe. (GoFundMe itself is NOT for patriots.) But you’re rolling the dice when you do that.

The reality is, most people are not going to be martyrs. A few will – professors, military people, policemen … we have had some examples of these brave people over the last few years. But to ask most people to do that … is to mis-understand human nature.

Mass resignations, supported by a huge mass movement … that’s possible. (The same logic applies to police strikes.) But we on the Right do not have such a mass movement yet. We have the numbers, but not the intelligent, savvy, organizational leadership.

In any case, although there are many people who are consciously on the Left who do NOT endorse the PC/SJW insanity, we can see which way the current is moving. They remain silent, and I can completely understand why. They see which way the wind is blowing, and, as with most of us, self-interest will override commitment to principle.

Big events can change this … events which make it seem to be that the wind’s direction can be dramatically reversed… otherwise there would never be revolutions … but don’t expect ordinary people to sacrifice themselves just for a principle.

Looking at current political trends in the US, we have to estimate not where we are at this particular moment, but in which direction are we moving. A man who jumps from a high building can shout, as he passes each window, “Okay so far!!!” … but it’s the direction of motion, and the final result, which count.