Nonsense, AS…and I suspect you KNOW it. First of all, Social Security is NOT AN ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM, and should NEVER be counted as such. People drawing social security PAID into the system for almost all of their lives…to the tune of 15% of their annual salaries, year after year after year! If they’d all been allowed to pay that amount instead into just PASSBOOK savings accounts with compound interest, let alone investing in blue chip stocks, we’d all be millionaires by the time we retired…even those who paid 15% in out of incomes BELOW the median Illegal aliens don’t pay ANYTHING into SS on average yet are allowed to draw OUT of SS for life!
Hey Dave, that chart includes three other programs, and the only one I talked about, was SNAP.
So you’re not responding to me.
Cool, has nothing to do with this. It’s really just an argument to say “why didn’t we adopt Chile’s model”.
We’ve covered this, the Chief Actuary of the SS Trust Fund says they are.
People are really boneheaded to forget that there’s plenty of things you’d need a SS number for in our economy.
Illegals who live here long have to get something that at least acts like one, and it turns out the IRS in fact offers them that: the ITIN.
Yet there are tens of thousands who come here, work for cash under the table, GET your vaunted ITIN number, use it for 5 more years, then go back to Mexico and draw social security for the rest of their lives.
No, you can’t use an ITIN number to draw down, only pay-in.
That would only happen if you became a citizen, and were given a SSN, with the ITIN history then becoming part of your pay history.
With an ITIN, you can’t get Earned Income tax credit either, even if your dependents have a valid SSN.
As I said before…DELUSIONAL.
Try again. They can claim the child tax credit.
You posted those numbers and the average immigrant “entrepreneur” was taking in a little over $20,000 per year in REVENUE. And even if your source is so economically illiterate that he meant that was their profit - that’s less than working full time at a fast food restaurant. So that’s not creating actual value.
No, it’s that they cherry pick a few specific programs like TANF, and Social Security, which is not where 90% of our money spent on illegals goes. Most of the cost is in healthcare, schooling for their children, and incarceration costs for that 0.000001% of immigrants who commit felonies.
It’s like cherry picking crime statistics to yield out a pre-determined result. You say “How can we say Jews commit more crime than blacks” -> Troll through all types of crime. "Hey! Look here! They commit almost 10x as many per capita crimes in terms of embezzlement!
Jews commit 10x as much crime as African Americans - The Need to Immediately Prioritize African Immigration"
Cato, the Chamber of Commerce and the Koch Brothers are all cut from the same cloth. They’re as credible, trustworthy, and patriotic as CNN.
Dude… That’s a tax deduction, not a draw on SS.
And in case you don’t understand the difference:
Currently, it’s a $1,000 nonrefundable credit that reduces the taxpayer’s liability on a dollar-for-dollar basis, intended to provide an extra measure of tax relief for taxpayers with qualifying dependents.
And your source confirmed what I said:
“An ITIN filer cannot claim the Earned Income Tax Credit, which specifically requires a social security number. Similarly, any children using an ITIN instead of a SSN cannot be taken into account when an otherwise qualified individual claims the credit.”
Yes it is, a plus is a plus. You can’t deny that.
Any dollar in value they contribute, is one more dollar in value we don’t have, if they aren’t there to make it.
It’s already been said; illegals are a boon for Federal Programs. Trust Funds like SS even calculate their exhaustion by how many more immigrants we appear to get every year.
As to local services, that was addressed in the Texas study, which confirmed illegals contribute far more to the economy than they take in benefits.
I’m sure other States (like California) spend more, but that’s because they have runaway Governments, with local voters who are apparently okay with spending more. Which isn’t a “problem” for Federal Authorities to solve.
Nope, CATO is the bulldog of free markets, they’ll happily rip into CoC when it wants subsidies, or regulations, or anything else that violates the freedom of commerce & enterprise.
If you’re going to tell me the likes of Mises, Hayek, and Milton Friedman were all just the same as CoC, I’m going to shrug. You’re not being serious, you’re just posturing.
Then why can’t any of the actuaries, or the economists, confirm what you said Dave?
Why do you never have evidence for this claim?
It seems to me that you make assumptions, based on what you think illegals can do, or what the programs allow them to do, but you never actually looked into it.
It’s just assumption piled onto assumption.
Wrong! It’s YOU who can’t see the forest for all those pesky trees, AS. An illegal with a phony SSN CAN (and they DO) apply for earned income tax credits–which are mailed to the address on the TAX filing…not to the address of the actual card holder (if there even IS one). If you think the IRS makes ANY effort to match people filing with their SSN of record, you’re the one who’s being delusional. They get a tax return with a name and address on it and a SSN–which the illegal may have been using for years undetected–and they process the claim on the return without bothering to check if the SSN is “legitimate.” I have a Vietnam Veteran friend who has worked for the IRS for decades since getting out of the service and he rails about this (privately) every time we talk.
This below is how the SSA handles fraudulent payments:
If they can’t match who you are, they aren’t giving out credit. Your payments go in the suspense file.
Now that’s SS; your general tax return is a different matter.
I’ve only worked in assurance for close to a decade and have no idea how taxes work. How I even got my CPA is just a complete mystery.
They are draining tax revenues - more than they put it. Something you keep insisting is impossible.
Correct. This is something the Obama administration specifically prohibited. Along with the long-standing tradition of the IRS notifying an employer when their employee’s reported SS# didn’t match the name/DOB on file.
Which has nothing to do with ITINs; what you said before on it was false, take ownership.
The actual situation, as far as I can gather, is as follows:
It’s unlikely for illegals to use a SS number, or an ITIN, to draw on an SS account. The SSA actively looks for excuses not to pay out; and the way illegals use both of these things offers them plenty.
What’s actually happening, what you and Dave are alluding to, is that they use an ITIN, or a “borrowed” SS number, to turn in a tax return from which they get a refund. The IRS is far less careful than the SSA, and even argues that they don’t have the authority to block refunds of the Additional Child Tax Credit like they do with the EITC.
They have numbers of the users, and an estimate of how much this costs us per year, though it’s unclear how many are illegals, and how many are something else. It simply all falls under “invalid SS number”.
Nope, you’re changing the goal posts, and I’m putting my foot down.
Fact #1. They are a boon to Federal programs. Once again, the trust funds themselves calculate their exhaustion on more or less of undocumented workers coming here.
Fact #2. They have a net drain on local and State services.
Fact #3. Their economic contribution, separate from the fiscal impact, greatly exceeds what they take in services.
Everything I have said, has been in accordance with these three points.
I never called anything “impossible”; I unpacked your confusion of fiscal and economic, and the difference between Federal and Local impact.
You talk here as if fiscal impact predicts the economic; something no economist or study I can find backs you on. It just seems to me that you made assumption on this, and then didn’t check on it.
More BS. I don’t know where you keep getting your phony “data” from, but it’s simply WRONG. ILLEGAL aliens COST us FAR more than they produce. They are sending BILLIONS of American dollars to Mexico and Central America–not to even COUNT China and the Middle East–every year. Those billions are a LOSS to the U.S., but I suppose you’ll try and claim that those billions don’t matter, even if a lot of that money comes from U.S. government hand-outs.
The IRS and SSA.
They’re the only ones who’d know this. There’s no one more authoritative to ask.
Dave, you’ve never tabulated this; the IRS has.
And again, even their number for this, isn’t all illegals. People who for one reason or another got shifted under an invalid SS number fall under this category.
But hell, even if I took their full number as being due to illegals, it’s still far smaller than what illegals contributed to the Texas economy, 5 years before this assessment was made, alone.
And that’s what it comes down to Dave: we know the numbers for this.
The IRS knows it, they publicized it, so I get to make comparisons. It’s fair game.
BS. What does the IRS know? It KNOWS what is reported to it…period. It does NOT know what illegals actually COST us and it doesn’t actually KNOW what they produce. It KNOWS what someone chooses to TELL them about.
How many people are filing with faulty SS numbers or ITINs, and aren’t paying federal income tax.
Yes, you can track those things.
And how many illegals aren’t filing AT ALL??? Are you REALLY this obtuse?
If they aren’t filing, they can’t get a tax refund. Which means no free lunch by moving back over to Mexico.
Yet THOSE types are the ones who are costing us billions…about 80 billion, in fact, EVERY YEAR.
No, I’ve seen the IRS estimation Dave, it doesn’t come any where close to 80. Not even 10.
The only other welfare illegals could be getting is local, and that would mean living in the city/county. Not in Mexico.
And just so we can have it for the record. they aren’t drawing on Social Security. That’s different from getting a refund on a tax return, which is what you were talking about.