Bill to punish lawless officials in sanctuary cities with fines and jail time


And HOW does that system PREVENT a farmer from hiring a LEGAL employee? Why do you believe that dairy farmers MUST be allowed to hire only IMMIGRANTS…legal or not? What about your “system” INSISTS that dairy farmers cannot hire LEGAL employees or even American CITIZENS?


Because, he can’t get the year-long visas for his employees. He needs year-long, but the system does not give those to farmers.

They only give seasonal visas to farmers. Which doesn’t work for Dairy farmers. The moment they announce that they need year-long visas, the bureaucrats turn them away.

Their needs, don’t fit the system.


BS AGAIN, AS. Why does the “system” prevent these dairy farmers from hiring AMERICANS? THAT’S the real question here. The answer is…it DOESN’T. They WANT illegals because they can get away with not paying them, their taxes and the basic minimum of benefits…period.


Too tired from doing “the jobs Americans won’t do” to reply, but I’ll get to it. Maybe by then my fury at being told I deserve to lose my job will have subsided


No one is moving to these counties. Even their kids pack up and go to the cities.

Either they hire the migrants, or they go out of business.

I’ve seen a dairy farmer who offers a standard contract & housing for his workers. He collects payroll, and hands it over to the Government.

The only thing he doesn’t do, is ensure that the people are here legally. Which as Barry Goldwater points out, isn’t his job.


That’s not even half the problem. Another part is that no Americans are moving to these places, to be available to take the jobs in the first place.

Americans are more sedentary then ever (not moving around for work), and more likely to be living in the cities than ever.

This is a perspective you don’t answer for: Employers in rural areas, where the only people who wander into town, and from place to place, to fill their labor pool, is the migrants.

You’re trying to tell me that their concerns don’t matter, and I don’t buy it. Their concerns are at least as relevant as yours. If they don’t get this labor, their livelihoods disappear.

Protesters Remove U.S. Flag, Replace It With Mexican Flag Outside ICE Facility

All BS
Americans move to the work today just as they always have. North Dakota is pretty damn “rural” and people from every State flocked there for oil jobs, of course the oil companies did not ask the government to subsidize their labor force by sticking guns in the rest of our faces (like the farmers do)

Illegal immigrants are NOT taking farm jobs because they can make far more money doing the trades they did in their native country.

The “Farmers” are the ones who created this mess because they refused to see how their slave force would eventually learn how to game the system and enslave the rest of us.

The “Farmers” deserve everything that is happening to them, they supported the Leftists to gain their slaves and now they can’t keep their slaves on the plantation.

The rest of us are paying for what the “Farmers” demanded their politicians do, why shouldn’t they suffer as well?


Well written . . . my compliments.


Casting doubt on the character of the American Farmer is tantamount to challenging Ma, Pa, and Apple Pie (or that milk mustache). The left of course would have us believe it’s downright unAmerican. My compliments for taking on this sacred cow (pun intended).


It’s a plan for an entirely different economic reality than we face today, that offers no concessions to the needs of domestic labor. I’m sure it’d be great for wall street and the chamber of commerce to grant them immunity from the rules rank and file workers have to follow. But that is just another way of using the government to pick winners and losers. Don’t like “class warfare”? Then how about don’t declare war on my class, because I will fight back, with any and all means at my disposal. It’s not like I have a lot to lose, at this point. The IRS already says that my taxes should be 1600%. That’s not a typo, I mean one thousand six hundred percent. What’s your immigration plan gonna do about that?

So you don’t have a plan. There’s no way this idea ever becomes law short of revolution. Too many vested interests in the status quo. Even if it does, I don’t see how it would help much, if any at all. Maybe a small percentage of illegals would use it.

The fact that nobody involved wants it. Not the government, not the businesses, not the illegals. All of them are perfectly happy with the status quo. The enforcement agencies get to wring their hands and not do their jobs while demanding broader powers and bigger budgets. Politicians get a splashy, divisive issue that gives them plenty of soundbite opportunities while they wring their hands and demand broader powers and bigger budgets. Businesses get access to cheaper labor than they would have if they were following the rules. The illegals receive greater net benefits than they would under the rules.

You keep ignoring the fact that immigration status is only one small part of the problem. People who break fifty laws this week for profit will probably break forty nine next week to make the same profit. No amount of immigration ‘reform’ will do a diddly dog-gone thing without full, fair and evenhanded enforcement, and enforcement begins with gaining some measure of control over our borders. (No, scratch that: enforcement actually begins with cleaning out the enforcement agencies and getting rid of officers who refuse to do the job, but the point stands.)

As far as “farmers” go: there is no more subsidized industry in America, and the system is rife with abuse. The “small family farm” is almost entirely a myth, at this point. Those that are not owned outright by Con-Agra, ADM or Monsanto or their subsidiaries are more or less vassals to them. I forget the exact number but iirc upwards of 80% of farm subsidy payments are delivered to Upper Manhattan. (Not many small family farms, there, I’m guessing.) “Farm enterprises”, in government parlance, are almost entirely a fiction designed to a) shelter profits from taxes and b) get subsidy checks.

The whole farm thing is a red herring, though: How does legitimizing immigration status impact the trade in black market labor services?

EDIT: Having a problem with quote tags. Hope it’s fixed now

EDIT 2: Readable, but not fixed… Help?

EDIT 3 (by Fantasy Chaser): Both the opening and closing quote tags need to be on their own line. One looked like it was in the edit, but when I put the cursor behind it and hit “enter,” the real-time preview showed it appearing the way it should. There was also an extra quote tag that I imagine was generated when you trying to fix it. I think I got it sorted out.


You have a close-quote before the quote in the first one and the quote lacks the close bracket in BOTH quotes.


Yeah, still not working correctly


Stats don’t reflect that:

It’s mostly my generation making those numbers what they are in fact.

Dairy farmers have spoken up to this:

I don’t see a trace of dishonesty from them here.

Until you come to the table ready to listen to their concerns, the status quo will continue.

Eisenhower understood this; that’s why his INS commissioner sent people around to farms to get the Farmers on board. Their cooperation ensured the policy’s success, you’ll need to do the same to repeat that experience.


You pile the “quotes” vertically, not right next to the lines; I made the same mistake for months.

Like this:



I am tired of the elitist talking points like this one. There are millions of Americans doing these so-called jobs Americans won’t do. I know many of them. If there were fewer illegals maybe it will cost more to have someone else cut your grass, plant your trees, clean your house, carry your bags, milk your cows and pick your crops. There will be a pressure for wages to “trickle up”. It’s absolute BS that this will kill our economy and competitiveness. The special interests all have their lobbyists, we the people have Donald Trump as our lobbyist.


Good thing I wasn’t making it then; so what about the demographic issue in these counties?

People over the border pick crops for $10 a day, right there in baja California. Cheap crops in Turkey is over-shoring grapes from California and other states.

Wanting to increase the cost of labor through your means, has the same effect, as raising the minimum wage.

You can’t escape this, sorry. I’m no happier than you are about it, I didn’t originally support low-skilled immigration, but the actual parameters of the world we live in prompted me to change my mind.

You don’t have to agree with my approach, but you can’t simply ignore realities of the world because you don’t like what they might say.


I edited the tags, and gave what I hope is a helpful explanation at the bottom of the post.


Thanks, but im currently yoo mush-minded to make sense of what you said there


Rhanks, see my post to A. S., above rhough…


At a time when anyone could do almost every job, immigrants could take their job more easily? Yes. I never said otherwise. But if an immigrant took a native’s job, the native could find another job. Because there was a greater need for low skilled labor than there was a supply of low skilled labor. We have the opposite situation today.

Right now, we have only a limited number of low skill jobs available. The potential labor pool is far larger than the job pool. So adding immigrants doesn’t mean an American has to find a new job, it means one of the few jobs Americans on the low end of the scale can perform is now gone. So the odds of them simply not working rises.

Returning to what I said previously

Even in the presence of $2/hr slave labor, automation is coming to agriculture within the next 15 years. You know this better than I do, considering your family’s involvement in it.

What happens when agriculture is mostly automated? When there are no truck drivers because software is handling the rig? When there are few to no people working back of the house in the restaurant. When there are two people staffing taco bell at 5pm. When there are a handful of people directly handling inventory in the Amazon warehouse.

ALL of these things are only 10-15 years out. Where do these people go? What do they do? We’re talking about 10s of millions of jobs. I don’t see anything similar replacing them. Why would we then add tens of millions more people who can only do this type of work?

Yep. The only president we’ve had in a generation that prioritizes his voting base over the Chamber of Commerce.