Bill to punish lawless officials in sanctuary cities with fines and jail time


#433

:roll_eyes:


#434

There is NOTHING in your vaunted “natural law” that says the U.S. government MUST allow anyone who wants to, to come here. That would be the height of stupidity.


#435

With innocent people, yes, yes you do.

You’re judging things with a Heglian-nationalist value ethic, when those values did not exist in the 1780s.

Hence why people under the Constitution could come and go as they pleased. Its ethic was to treat people as nations unto themselves. Sovereign individuals.


#436

BS. EVERYONE on planet Earth KNOWS that you can’t travel anywhere you desire without the permission of the host country…period. Therefore, if you GO someplace to which you’ve not been given permission, you cease to be an “innocent person.”


#437

Not in the 18th or 19th century. No permission was required. People came and went as they pleased.

America didn’t even have a passport until 1914 Dave.

And people coming and going as they please works. It makes the host country, better off.

In Singapore, you don’t even need a passport for the first 30 days. In Dubai, 94% of the people who live there are foreign-born. Both places are rich because of re-export. Of foreigners selling to other foreigners.

The Founders got it right, embracing Freedom is worth it.


#438

Been doing that for quite some time. Wish others here would too.


#439

Before that, you decided almost from the start to take a method of sniping at, rather than talking to me.

This right here is evidence of that.

If you let your ability to engage with people you disagree with be that unharnessed, you’ll only be giving yourself obstacles to understanding the issue fully.

He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that."

– John Stuart Mill


#440

I think I must have been replying to Slim. Can’t imagine that I would reply to you with the same thing you said, and it’s been a long time since I posted that.


#441

Thanks, I find this new format confusing too.


#442

:roll_eyes:


#443

Uh, don’t know if you’ve noticed or not, AS, but this ISN’T the 18th or 19th Century with a world population of around 1 billion souls.


#444

Nonsense. The country’s “native-born population” has become so wealthy from oil that they refuse to do ANY work themselves and import people to work FOR them. We don’t have a comparable situation here.


#445

True – back then, Singapore, and Dubai were poor pieces of undeveloped dirt.

Free trade, and free movement of people during the 20th and 21st changed that for both of them. Just as it did for us in the 18th and 19th.

You can’t argue with success Dave; we grew further & faster during those centuries than we do now.

Only 25% of the UAE’s GDP is from oil, and only 1% for Dubai itself.

They’ve diversified; most of their economy is simply re-export, the same as Hong Kong. Free trade by any other name.

It’s a model Saudi Arabia is trying desperately to follow. Hence the new city they’re trying to build; Neom.


#446

Bobjam was doing this? Hogwash.

Try arguing your cases strictly on the grounds of the facts instead of digging in your heels and getting petulant when your alleged facts are called out and moving the goalposts in defense of your ego, and you’d generally (albeit not perfectly) find life less irritating here and more of those who disagree with you would find it easier to do so respectfully.


#447

He did.

That isn’t engaging the argument., it’s ad hominem, through and through.

The same to what he just did.

I do; the problem is, people react to what I say with the same responses they give to trolls on the Left.

Years of going back and forth with them, has ingrained some bad habits.

You see someone with an opposing opinion, you attack it, and them, and you don’t see much separation between the two.

I’m not perfect at this either, but I make an effort to be self-aware of it.

And I also always observe this dictum:

Show me respect, and I’ll show it in return.

Fail to show me respect, and I’ll respond in kind.

Tit for tat.

I’m not going to go along with toxic behavior directed at me; that only encourages it to continue.

I’am going to point it out, and I’am going to defend myself. I can certainly improve at how I do these things, I’ll grant that, but there is nothing wrong with my doing it.


#448

You do not “show respect” to your opponents, you ignore and deflect all of the facts that condemn your position and you misdirect constantly.

I gave you thousands of words years ago before I concluded that there was no longer grounds for “the benefit of the doubt”, you were not responding in kind then and your tactics today cannot be justified by claims that anyone else “started it” either.


#449

I’ve shown you quite a deal of respect.

I didn’t return your insults at first, I’ve admitted when I’ve gotten things wrong with you, and I’ve even asked, outright, for your opinion on things.

Even now I respect you on principle, because of what you’ve done in your life, and your own clear desire to inform yourself on things outside of your own experience.

But I’m not going to put up with insults RET; you either need to prove your claims of me, or I will undercut them. And you.

RET, you jumped straight into insulting me from the moment I got here. Maybe you weren’t aware that you were doing it, but that’s what you did.

I’m guessing you were going off your own inertia from arguments you’ve had with other people. That’s what you were used to doing, so you just repeated it with me.


#450

What does your post have to do with the topic of the thread which is “a bill to punish lawless officials in sanctuary cities with fines and jail time?”


#451

He didn’t. He called a spade a spade.


#452

That doesn’t matter, he’s not contributing to the discussion, only taking a potshot at me.

Sniping, describes perfectly what he’s doing there; it doesn’t matter at all if you think his comment is “right” or not.

I’m not the topic.