Bill to punish lawless officials in sanctuary cities with fines and jail time


#21

Your question is irrelevant to the rule of law. What is important is “[a]ny person” who knowingly harbors an illegal alien.” means “any person” within the meaning of 8 U.S. § 1324. And this applies to the elected officials in sanctuary cities. It’s time to lock one of them up and set an example for those who knowingly and willingly engage in the criminal act of harboring illegal entrants.

JWK


#22

Dave, are you admitting that illegals are a net boon to the economy, and by extension (when implemented properly), tax revenue?


#23

It’s relevant to hwo they themselves defined it, it’s right there, in their own words.

Sorry John, but you got it wrong. No court is going to look at it the way you want them to.

This isn’t commercial gain, and choosing not to prosecute illegals, is not the same as harboring them. That’s your own personal equivocation, no judge will look at it that way.


#24

Politicians get votes from harboring illegals and cash donations from entities who want their cost of labor subsidized by the taxpayers.

These advocates want money and the power that comes from creating a majority that cannot eat without electing the extreme Left.

They should be prosecuted just like they prosecute the citizens who do not follow every jot and tittle of the draconian laws that they pass for everyone except their illegal constituents and those who claim the Democrat Party as their family.


#25

Sounds like a RICO.


#26

RET, I don’t think the migrant theory for California turning left is sufficient. It’s plausible, I’ll grant that, but it can’t account for at least two things:

  1. Why States which still don’t have large populations of Latinos also turned to the left, like Massachusetts, like Oregon, at around the same time.

  2. That poor, working-class Latinos are the absolute worst voter turnout demographic (meaning, it’s the white voter population who had to be converted for us to get these results).

If you’ve ever watched videos of local Democratic conventions ( or worse, been to one) you’ll find that the left eagerly wants to pass laws forcing everyone to vote, because they have such a hard time getting a turn out in minority communities in amounts that visibly moves the dial.

With that said, I think that there’s a better explanation for the left turn in coastal states. One that’s going on here in Colorado, right now. A cause you’ve also observed, but I don’t think you have fully registered what the impact has been, nor what the drivers behind it were.

That cause being: the very broad left wing shift in universities, and the growing SJW religion that they proselytize.


#27

Of course illegals are not the only dependent group that has been established by the Left, but they are one of VERY few that exists in the private sector; and they are a very large group.

The Left have about 42 percent of the vote in the tank regardless of who they run, this is the unionized government sector, the retirees who fear the loss of social security, the single mothers who live off Welfare and the college idiots who are indoctrinated with their propaganda and dependant on government loans.

They need another 10 percent to win and 20 percent to be certain they will win forever, Latinos vote 75 percent for the Left in perpetuity.

THAT is how Kalifornia went from competitive to the Left consistently taking 68 percent of the vote in statewide elections.

The private sector is destroyed except for the crony entities that get the subsidies, we have the highest poverty rate in the nation and the largest percentage of illegal aliens in the world.

Poverty and dependency is how they win, keeping wages so low that people can only survive on them if they take welfare or leave the State is their strategy; and it works very well for them.


#28

It’s only relevant in your mind. What is important is “[a]ny person” who knowingly harbors an illegal alien.” means “any person” within the meaning of 8 U.S. § 1324.

JWK


American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance a maternity ward for the poverty stricken populations of other countries who invade America’s borders to give birth.


#29

It’s not just dependency or outright greed, rather, it’s a mishandling of human nature at work here.

Humans are hardwired for religious thinking, so when people are deprived of Christian understanding (or any other “organized” faith), they end up embracing rudimentary beliefs systems that they come up with on the fly.

Hence why California, the state with one of the highest rates of so-called “atheism”, is also leading the country in new-age “healing crystal” worship. Human spirituality doesn’t go away, it resets.

Thus, in the Universities, which broadly saw Original Marxist arguments collapse (yet still hating capitalism), everything turned in favor of postmodern, Frankfurt school, Critical Theory consensus where everyone attacks the middle, and uplifts victim-hood culture.

Victims are sacred, and either being one, or identifying yourself as their defender becomes the highest good. Denying identified victims deserves any kind “help” ? The greatest evil.

And it’s not just the Students; it’s much of the Baby boomer generation, who had any stake in what happened in the 1960s and 70s. The fringe elements of the civil rights movement, the radicalization, and those who stayed in Universities to avoid being drafted to fight the Vietnam war. Together, these groups supersaturated academia with people who wanted to reject the status quo.

It’s because this trend was generational, that we saw this shift in faculties occur in the 1990s. As that’s when the far more conservative “Greatest Generation” started to retire, and faculty make up of left vs right went from about 3 to 1, to 15, or even 30 to 1.

And when things are that far bent, it’s not hard for faculties to then self-select into outright purity. It becomes a negative feedback loop, where only left wing ideas are wanted, and people who are conservative either bow out entirely, or keep their heads down.

Thus, what you have is a case where Colleges are not just schools, but cathedrals for the SJW religion.The University Professors are now not just (bad) teachers, they’re the priestly caste, acting as die-casters, demanding state officials, local officials, and even just ordinary people conform to their ideas, or they’re branded as “deniers”; outside the cause of Social Justice.

In a world where the majority of our leaders were trained in these institutions, everyone now has some kind of stake in it; in this “faith”.

And it’s had it’s biggest effect, in the states with out sized College systems. Those with the biggest platforms to proselytize from vs the general population. California, Massachusetts, New York… and now Colorado.


#30

Damn straight. Joe McCarthy drove the cockroaches out of Washington and they infested our Universities and bred like…like cochroaches. This swamp will be a bigger nut to crack than the one in the beltway.


#31

The Left are not “mishandling” human nature, they are experts in capitalizing on human nature for their own personal security and power to the detriment of their own constituents and the Nation as a whole.

They have established a self perpetuating structure based on dependence;
The teachers are dependent on ever increasing school spending, so they push the Leftist propaganda.

The other Unions are dependent on constantly growing budgets as well, so they fund the campaigns of Leftists.

The Welfare rats are dependent on government spending for every essential element in their lives, so they vote for Leftists.

Illegals are dependent on the Welfare State combined with free access to our labor market with no regulations and no tax burden, so they vote for Leftists and teach their children to do the same.

The Enviro-Nazis are dependent on government funding and legislation that creates captive markets without competition, so they vote for Leftists and let themselves be used to launder taxpayer money and put it into Leftist campaign coffers.

Many large companies are dependent on government regulations that crush their competition so they fund Leftist campaigns and create do nothing “reward jobs” for the friends and family members of Leftist politicians.

Many elderly are dependent on Social Security so they vote for Leftists out of fear that not doing so would mean their personal ruin.

All of this structure is established in such a way as to self perpetuate, they need a steady influx of immigrant labor to prevent the labor markets from naturally raising the wage rates to align with the actual cost of living in each region, they know from the Reagan years that a booming economy that is short on labor causes wages to climb and government dependency to shrink; sanctuary cities and States are designed to keep personal prosperity from occurring as a result of the supply and demand realities in the labor market.

Wages stay low and taxes stay high so only subsidized labor can survive on the wage rates.

Once this is established to a large degree (like in Kalifornia) businesses lose the ability to raise wages high enough to fill labor voids, this is because they would have to raise ALL OF THEIR EMPLOYEES wages to match the new hires who refuse to go on Welfare to make up the difference.

Wages would have to double or in some cases triple to match the cost of living in most Kalifornia areas if the subsidies were removed, this is the result of unlimited subsidized immigration preventing the wage rates from naturally and gradually rising over time; to do it all at once now in order to fill the labor needs would destroy the economy overnight with massive inflation.

The Farmers were the first to make this bed and then complain about having to lie in it, sanctuary laws were supposed to help that but a lack of enforcement simply made illegals say “why work on a farm for pennies when we can work anywhere for much more money or start our own business with no regulations or taxes to worry about?”

That means you need 50 illegals to get one farm worker, anyone with any skills at all who comes here doesn’t even consider a farm job.

Farmers think raising wages all at once now (to remedy the mess they created by letting the State subsidize their labor) would devastate them, they are probably right but that’s what happens when you try to prosper by pointing a gun at the taxpayers so they will subsidize your labor costs.

The Farmers knew what they were doing and advocated for it, the destruction to all of our other markets was a sucker punch that few saw coming; probably because they bought the lie that sanctuary policies would only effect farm labor.

Turns out if you publicly declare that you won’t enforce your laws on anyone but citizens, illegals will flood into all of your labor markets and laugh at the idea of picking fruit; WHAT A SHOCK! [/sarcasm]

We cannot possibly raise immigration enough to meet the labor demand because the subsidies necessary would destroy us, we cannot remove the subsidies without abolishing Welfare for everyone as our courts have already ruled on attempts to do otherwise.

We have artificially corrupted our labor rates by removing the actual cost of living from the laborers side of the negotiation for MILLIONS of laborers that are not citizens.

Meanwhile the citizens have to both earn enough to live without the subsidies AND pay enough taxes to subsidize their own competition in the wage market, this cannot work for long and can only create dependence and poverty.

Which is the goal of the Left so they understand these things completely.j


#32

Somehow my post attributes this to Alaska_Slim instead of RET423. My apologies to both of you.


#33

And well you might apologize to both of them: their mutual antipathy is well documented :smiley:


#34

It’s this crazy new and improved format!


#35

Yep, that’s what galls me, right there. I don’t give a crap how many Mexicans come here to work, as long as the playing field is level. I’m wiped out by having to compete with subsidized labor, and somehow ineligible for any benefits myself. Tell me again what a boon they are for the economy…? WHOSE economy do they benefit? For damn sure not what used to be middle class blue collar workers, they’re being crushed into poverty. The fact that that “economic boon” left several million Americans high and dry
can be overlooked in the name of padding the bottom line of large corporations with the resources and connections to get a pass, while smaller companies without are victims of selective enforcement.


#36

You’re throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Mexican migrants have been coming here since long before the welfare state existed.

In the 1920s, they, poor unskilled Mexican immigrants, were 70% of railroad workers, 50-60% of meat packers, and about the same for farmhands.

There are underlying drivers for why this labor comes here, drivers that exist, regardless of if there’s a welfare state or not, and I don’t believe you or RET parse this.

Even China has to import low-skilled labor from Vietnam and Thailand to meet its economic demands. Same to any developed economy around the world you can point to. There is no reason to expect that our economy would be any different in this regard.

If giving welfare to immigrants creates distortions, then attack welfare. Do exactly what Milton Friedman did. Attacking immigrants instead, misses the point.

I don’t think you’ve parsed the effect immigrants have had, with automation.

Automation, has killed far more jobs than either immigrant, or the factory worker in China. It’s not even a contest.

Meanwhile, the Government has absolutely failed to ensure that our Educational system kept pace, and teach people relevant work skills. Much of our schools are still stuck in 1970s prep work, not that of an Information age economy.

That’s where the maladjustment lies.


#37

I have to disagree, as I don’t think they stumbled onto Post-modernism intentionally.

I think they sincerely wanted Marxism to work, and when the jury came in from around several countries to give the verdict that it was a failure, they were force to adapt, to champion the one thing about Marxism that made it attractive to people. Dismemberment narritives, and victim hood.


#38

Before the Welfare state immigrants had to deal with the same cost of living that every other person in the region had to account for, they competed for the same jobs but they did not get a “all of the basic staples in life for free” head start.

If I could go somewhere and get a free house, free food, free Healthcare and free education for my kids plus live under laws that bind the native citizens but exempt me while I practice my trade with no tax burden or regulations to deal with; I could do very well with much less income per hour than those same native citizens.

But no country except mine is stupid enough to set such a system up.


#39

Even before the welfare state, you still had natives arguing fiercely that immigrants were a cost to the taxpayer.

Either because some were criminals who we’d put in jail, or because they were “social inadequates” who wouldn’t amount to much, and would end up drawing on public support of the period.

Oh no, the Europeans have been far more generous to those they’ve gotten recently; with the only caveat being that they’re more restrictive in who they allow to enter their labor force. Which is just a recipe for a violent underclass.

Danial Hannan, whose a Euroskeptic, and a British MP, claims that a higher rate of Muslims turn into Terrorists in Britian, than in the United States (despite us having a bigger population of them), because there’s far less barriers to receive welfare, and far lower expectations of work.

… and also because “patriotism” is a dirty word in their schools, and everyone is taught nothing but colonial-white-person-guilt narratives.

But RET, regardless of how big our welfare state is, there’s a side to this issue I think you’re overlooking.

Legal immigrants, take more benefits than illegal ones do. Hence why Milton Friedman was prompted to say this:

Look, for example, at the obvious, immediate, practical example of illegal Mexican immigration. Now, that Mexican immigration, over the border, is a good thing. It’s a good thing for the illegal immigrants. It’s a good thing for the United States. It’s a good thing for the citizens of the country. But, it’s only good so long as it’s illegal.

So again, regardless of what we do to immigration, welfare must be dealt with. You can’t shirk away from that fight, nor advocate immigration restriction as a means not to engage in it.

It’s either that, or wait for us to go bankrupt, and if interest rates rise back up to 6% again, that won’t take very long at all.


#40

No. I’m “admitting” that left-wing politicians may SEE illegals that way. What’s even more important to them is their POLITICAL support for those who offer then “sanctuary.”