Well written . . . my compliments.
Casting doubt on the character of the American Farmer is tantamount to challenging Ma, Pa, and Apple Pie (or that milk mustache). The left of course would have us believe it’s downright unAmerican. My compliments for taking on this sacred cow (pun intended).
It’s a plan for an entirely different economic reality than we face today, that offers no concessions to the needs of domestic labor. I’m sure it’d be great for wall street and the chamber of commerce to grant them immunity from the rules rank and file workers have to follow. But that is just another way of using the government to pick winners and losers. Don’t like “class warfare”? Then how about don’t declare war on my class, because I will fight back, with any and all means at my disposal. It’s not like I have a lot to lose, at this point. The IRS already says that my taxes should be 1600%. That’s not a typo, I mean one thousand six hundred percent. What’s your immigration plan gonna do about that?
So you don’t have a plan. There’s no way this idea ever becomes law short of revolution. Too many vested interests in the status quo. Even if it does, I don’t see how it would help much, if any at all. Maybe a small percentage of illegals would use it.
The fact that nobody involved wants it. Not the government, not the businesses, not the illegals. All of them are perfectly happy with the status quo. The enforcement agencies get to wring their hands and not do their jobs while demanding broader powers and bigger budgets. Politicians get a splashy, divisive issue that gives them plenty of soundbite opportunities while they wring their hands and demand broader powers and bigger budgets. Businesses get access to cheaper labor than they would have if they were following the rules. The illegals receive greater net benefits than they would under the rules.
You keep ignoring the fact that immigration status is only one small part of the problem. People who break fifty laws this week for profit will probably break forty nine next week to make the same profit. No amount of immigration ‘reform’ will do a diddly dog-gone thing without full, fair and evenhanded enforcement, and enforcement begins with gaining some measure of control over our borders. (No, scratch that: enforcement actually begins with cleaning out the enforcement agencies and getting rid of officers who refuse to do the job, but the point stands.)
As far as “farmers” go: there is no more subsidized industry in America, and the system is rife with abuse. The “small family farm” is almost entirely a myth, at this point. Those that are not owned outright by Con-Agra, ADM or Monsanto or their subsidiaries are more or less vassals to them. I forget the exact number but iirc upwards of 80% of farm subsidy payments are delivered to Upper Manhattan. (Not many small family farms, there, I’m guessing.) “Farm enterprises”, in government parlance, are almost entirely a fiction designed to a) shelter profits from taxes and b) get subsidy checks.
The whole farm thing is a red herring, though: How does legitimizing immigration status impact the trade in black market labor services?
EDIT: Having a problem with quote tags. Hope it’s fixed now
EDIT 2: Readable, but not fixed… Help?
EDIT 3 (by Fantasy Chaser): Both the opening and closing quote tags need to be on their own line. One looked like it was in the edit, but when I put the cursor behind it and hit “enter,” the real-time preview showed it appearing the way it should. There was also an extra quote tag that I imagine was generated when you trying to fix it. I think I got it sorted out.
You have a close-quote before the quote in the first one and the quote lacks the close bracket in BOTH quotes.
Yeah, still not working correctly
Stats don’t reflect that:
It’s mostly my generation making those numbers what they are in fact.
Dairy farmers have spoken up to this:
I don’t see a trace of dishonesty from them here.
Until you come to the table ready to listen to their concerns, the status quo will continue.
Eisenhower understood this; that’s why his INS commissioner sent people around to farms to get the Farmers on board. Their cooperation ensured the policy’s success, you’ll need to do the same to repeat that experience.
You pile the “quotes” vertically, not right next to the lines; I made the same mistake for months.
I am tired of the elitist talking points like this one. There are millions of Americans doing these so-called jobs Americans won’t do. I know many of them. If there were fewer illegals maybe it will cost more to have someone else cut your grass, plant your trees, clean your house, carry your bags, milk your cows and pick your crops. There will be a pressure for wages to “trickle up”. It’s absolute BS that this will kill our economy and competitiveness. The special interests all have their lobbyists, we the people have Donald Trump as our lobbyist.
Good thing I wasn’t making it then; so what about the demographic issue in these counties?
People over the border pick crops for $10 a day, right there in baja California. Cheap crops in Turkey is over-shoring grapes from California and other states.
Wanting to increase the cost of labor through your means, has the same effect, as raising the minimum wage.
You can’t escape this, sorry. I’m no happier than you are about it, I didn’t originally support low-skilled immigration, but the actual parameters of the world we live in prompted me to change my mind.
You don’t have to agree with my approach, but you can’t simply ignore realities of the world because you don’t like what they might say.
I edited the tags, and gave what I hope is a helpful explanation at the bottom of the post.
Thanks, but im currently yoo mush-minded to make sense of what you said there
Rhanks, see my post to A. S., above rhough…
At a time when anyone could do almost every job, immigrants could take their job more easily? Yes. I never said otherwise. But if an immigrant took a native’s job, the native could find another job. Because there was a greater need for low skilled labor than there was a supply of low skilled labor. We have the opposite situation today.
Right now, we have only a limited number of low skill jobs available. The potential labor pool is far larger than the job pool. So adding immigrants doesn’t mean an American has to find a new job, it means one of the few jobs Americans on the low end of the scale can perform is now gone. So the odds of them simply not working rises.
Returning to what I said previously
Even in the presence of $2/hr slave labor, automation is coming to agriculture within the next 15 years. You know this better than I do, considering your family’s involvement in it.
What happens when agriculture is mostly automated? When there are no truck drivers because software is handling the rig? When there are few to no people working back of the house in the restaurant. When there are two people staffing taco bell at 5pm. When there are a handful of people directly handling inventory in the Amazon warehouse.
ALL of these things are only 10-15 years out. Where do these people go? What do they do? We’re talking about 10s of millions of jobs. I don’t see anything similar replacing them. Why would we then add tens of millions more people who can only do this type of work?
Yep. The only president we’ve had in a generation that prioritizes his voting base over the Chamber of Commerce.
Yes and I love it.
Of COURSE it’s his job to insure his employees are here legally. Otherwise, he CAN’T “pay their taxes to the government” because they don’t have legitimate SS numbers if they are here illegally.
And the economists answer to this, is this Chart:
Again I ask you, do you understand what the objection here is? Do you understand what the Chart is describing?
Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs fame has stated he has gone across the country, and found blue collar jobs that have been empty for decades.
Labor doesn’t allocate uniformally; gluts in some places, doesn’t remove the chance of shortages in others.
Mobility determines much of the allocation, and immigrants are more mobile than Americans right now. There’s utility to that. People who don’t mind moving around. They go where the demand is, and get things moving.
Airline baggage handling.
New aviation technology 60 years ago basically created this low-skilled job, and despite trying for the last 40, we still don’t have a useful way of automating it.
DIA was itself predicated on a new automated baggage handeling system demanded of it by United Airlines— that failed spectacularly.
Automation isn’t automatic, and it takes time, research, and distillation of best practices to do it. You’re taking those necessities for granted, because you’ve never looked behind the scenes to see what it takes to make it happen.
Car Washing itself has gone through at least two phases of increased automation, only to have a resurgence of detailing (hand washing).
Thus, I don’t see you interacting with this issue as it really is; only a truncated form of it.
For a couple of years now (at least) Alaska Slim has touted the premise that “immigrants are more law-abiding than native-born citizens.” Last night on Tucker Carlson’s show, he revealed a new study that shows EXACTLY the opposite…by FAR. Immigrants (both legal and illegal) comprise about 7% of the U.S. population, yet are responsible for WELL over their representation in murders, fraud, drug dealing, money laundering and illegal drug possession. The foreign born comprise over 20% of federal prisoners and 95% of THEM are illegal aliens. If you can find the show “on demand”, I strongly suggest you take a look at it.
The U.S. immigrant population stood at more than 43.3 million, or 13.5 percent, of the total U.S. population of 321.4 million in 2015
Unless 20 million people have left in the last two years…
Equally, you’re not getting very far if you try to use Federal prisons as an estimation of immigrant Crime, as What about States and cities? Which the report you’re trying to quote (and it admits this), doesn’t estimate?
Because guess who wouldn’t have been included in the Federal Stats?
If you want a picture of what actually happens when you study the full prison population in the U.S., here you go.
OK. Let’s go with YOUR figure of 13%. Immigrants commit 22% of all murders, 15% of all fraud, 30% of robberies, 50% of all drug dealing and 72% of those arrested and convicted for drug POSSESSION. That’s STILL infinitely more than you’ve been claiming for years now. FACT: Immigrants are NOT more law-abiding and peaceful than native-born Americans…not even close.
Pardon my French but (deleted by RWNJ – the French is not pardoned) the statistics. If we didn’t have criminal sanctuary cities there would be more Americans alive today. If we didn’t have chain migration and the immigration lottery we would have two less terrorist attacks.