Bill to punish lawless officials in sanctuary cities with fines and jail time


#161

I’m poking holes in the idea that sanctuary cities are more crime ridden compared to cities of similar size, because the evidence, doesn’t back that.

The evidence backs police choosing to ignore Federal law, in order to establish relationships that don’t antagonize immigrant communities. Police need relationships with communities, regardless of whom it is they police. If the Federal law puts itself in the way, then the Police exercise prudential judgement to ignore it.

It’s a microcosm of Federalism at work, for the very reason Federalism exists.


#162

Nonsense. No COMPETENT police agency IGNORES criminals in order to establish a “relationship” with a group of criminals. Those here illegally are, by DEFINITION, criminals. It’s a misdemeanor to enter this country illegally and a FELONY to do it twice. Therefore, AS’s “seasonal” illegals are, by definition, FELONS if they go home during the “off-season,” and then return illegally.


#163

We ignore non-violent ones all the time.

Police make informants of guys who sell drugs, and they ignore media pirates by default. Too damn many to catch, even if they tried.

This isn’t the only federal laws local authorities ignore; not even close Dave. Do not pretend differently.


#164

And that somehow makes it RIGHT, AS? What have you been smoking? Police do NOT routinely ignore federal law violators in order to “curry favor” with other federal law violators. Not if they are honest LEOs.


#165

Dave It’s why Federalism exists; prudential judgement. Because people closest to the ground, see things the dorks in Washington D.C. do not.

You may be comfortable with the idea of localities and states answering to every rule made by a damned fool bureaucrat somewhere in a crystal tower, but I do not.


#166

What does that have to do with punishing lawless officials in sanctuary cities who engage in harboring illegal entrants? It seems that your only recourse in debating this issue is to make stuff up and constantly misdirect.

JWK


#167

This has been the topic for quite some time, you didn’t keep up.


#168

The part I bolded is the key, and not surprisingly the part that was left out when AS responded to your post.

Laws do get ignored when they are impossible to enforce with the given resources but that is NOTHING like refusing to enforce laws because you want to show favor to a particular group of criminals.

Sanctuary cities (and now States in the case of Kalifornia) are refusing to enforce the Laws on illegal immigrants that they vigorously enforce on citizens, it begins with ignoring their status as illegal but it extends to all other aspects of Law including business, property use, motor vehicle regulations and taxation.

The agenda of establishing a massive group of voters who are dependent on government and will therefore vote for the Left is given priority over the Rule of Law and the Rights of every United States Citizen.

Kalifornia has perfected this strategy, the result is the highest poverty rate and one of the worst performing education structures in the United States; that means the Left will never lose a statewide election or lose control of a legislative body in Kalifornia again.

If the United States embraces the Kalifornia way, the United States will get the same results as Kalifornia; when you let government pick the winners at gunpoint the citizens will always be the losers.


#169

True, RET. Look…in Kalifornia, no government employee may inquire as to the immigration status of anyone with whom they come in contact in the course of their business. Also in Kalifornia, illegal aliens may apply for and receive a driver’s license WITHOUT identifying themselves as here illegally. In Kalifornia, DMVs routinely supply a voter registration when issuing a driver’s license…even to those who may be illegal, since they cannot legally differentiate between citizens and aliens…legal OR illegal. Since we know that there are at LEAST 5 million illegal adults in Kalifornia today, it’s reasonable to surmise that a large percentage of those adults have Kalifornia DLs, and therefore, have been provided voter registrations, so likely BELIEVE they are entitled to vote in Kalifornia.


#170

Oh, but I have been keeping up. You have been successful, as in the past, of switching the subject of threads which you are uncomfortable allowing an intelligent discussion of the topic taking place.

JWK


#171

That’s not the reality I’m speaking to.

Not all immigrants are criminals, but they, and many American-born children, will refuse to cooperate or report anything to Police, because their presence can threaten the people they know who are here illegally.

Spread across an entire community, you create dead zones of enforcement.

So the Police have a choice; ignore this Federal law, or create dead zones in their ability to police. Police cannot do their job in a vacuum , they rely on self-reporting.

Hence why, Police in Red Cities, in Red states, choose to not enforce the law. It creates too many other problems.

Just like media piracy laws, or marijuana laws now.

Rejecting this requires fixing the immigration system.

Until you fix the system, nothing will change RET.

At it hearts, this is a problem stemming from over-regulation. More regulation will not fix it. Nor will more enforcement.

No more than “Operation Compliance” fixed Detroit’s ailing economy.


#172

No, you didn’t.


#173

But all ILLEGAL “immigrants” ARE criminals. I will suggest to you that the lack of cooperation in minority neighborhoods stems more from simple hatred of law enforcers rather than a desire to “protect” illegals from the law plus the silly idea that the WORST thing you can be socially is a “rat” willing to tell the police what you saw or heard.


#174

It doesn’t matter if the police can’t find them, or can’t find other criminals, because people don’t talk.

Police need a working relationship with communities, they need communities to self-report and self-police.

If they don’t get that, dysfunction results.

El Paso Dave. El Paso, with its very large immigrant population (and sanctuary status), proves it. So long as you have a relationship with the immigrants that doesn’t antagonize, overall crime can be low.


#175

One example–with a DUBIOUS record of being law-abiding–doesn’t make for policy. LA, AS, LA!


#176

Comparison Dave, Comparison.

We can compare cities of the same size, based on whether they have sanctuary status or not, and sanctuary cities come out ahead. They have less crime.

Police choose this course of action, because it creates less dead zones.


#177

You have no clue what motivates police in dealing with illegals on the street. You just got through claiming above that in minority neighborhoods, people are reluctant to even REPORT crimes. Does it not occur to you that THAT is why they APPEAR to be “safer?” You can’t add up crime statistics that are never REPORTED to the police in the first place.


#178

I’m not talking about the street; I’m talking about why entire departments, and their chiefs, don’t advocate enforcing this law.

Departments have ignored Federal Gun laws, drug laws, and piracy laws; they have the right to do this, and they’re frequently IN the right for doing so.

Plus Dave, you’ve already admitted that you have sided with lawbreakers against laws themselves, you admit to the principle, you just don’t want to apply it here, because you don’t want more immigration.

You’ve bought into leftist narratives on Wage controls, and identitarian impulses elsewhere.

The same result across 100s of cities? Not likely— you’re stretching things.


#179

What “100’s of cities?” LA, Baltimore, San Francisco, Detroit, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Houston, Philadelphia are ALL declared “sanctuary cities” and our worst cesspools of criminality.


#180

I have paid enough attention to know you have been successful in avoiding the topic of the thread and intentionally switching it to something having nothing to do with punishing lawless officials in sanctuary cities.

JWK