Birthright Citizenship Ended by Executive Order


Close, I have argued that trying to keep illegals off the dole while preserving the Welfare State has always and will always be a failed waste of time; and that is absolutely true.

Get rid of the Welfare State and my opinion on immigration will dramatically change but clamoring to increase immigration while I am forced to both support them AND compete with them in the labor market and I say shut the damn door.


You do understand, RET, that the economic subjugation of people like you and I is the goal of this policy? The blue collar middle class is under deliberate attack, and it looks to me like we’re losing.


And I’m telling you that’s not how the world works.

Net immigration is decided by socio-economic on the ground that no Government on earth controls, and it is folly to try.

Further, chasing after the effects of one Government policy, by empowering Government with another, is a cluster, and you know that. Appointing Government economic God to solve an issue it caused, will never work.

If you want to fix it, you have to do an actual fix, no shortcuts.

No one is working farm jobs. No one is working for meatpackers. No one is working in the rural areas, period, besides the migrants.

Even when the urban areas are hurting with unemployment, and they’re right next door, Americans refuse to move to take up that work.

No one is hurt by allowing migrants to take that work. Americans are instead hurt by the migrants being blocked. It should be a completely separate issue.

In a sane world, it would be treated that way.


There is quite literally nothing about “how the world works” that you could teach me, I knew more about how the world works when you were in diapers than you know now.

You have whatever is produced by a Google search and a Leftist education, put together that equals nothing accurate about “how the world works”.


A great example, you regularly try to sell the lie that illegals are coming here to work farm jobs or in packing plants in rural communities.

You could evacuate the entire nation of Mexico into the U.S and not fill these jobs, why on earth would anyone (illegal or otherwise) take a farm job for slave wages when 20 or 25 dollar an hour, tax free construction jobs doing exactly the kind of work they do are available in cities with government housing, government medical care, free food and subsidized utilities?

It sounds like you got your talking points from the pre welfare state era or the Democrat National Party headquarters.


He refuses to see that happening because someone made up some statistics that agree with what he wants to believe.

What I want to know, is if no one is working these farm jobs and meat packers,how does this country waste 40% of it’s food, and still feed 350 (ish) million people AND have an abundance for export?


When is the last time you actually visited a rural area? I assure you, Talbot County, Georgia is pretty freakin’ rural, and there’s plenty of people who ain’t migrants working here. I bet there aren’t 30 families of Mexican origin in the county. Muskogee County (the city of Columbus, pop. ~ 194k), right next door, on the other hand, has probably become, in the last 10 years 15% (if not more) Latin American migrants.

EDIT: According to wikipedia, the 2010 census put Hispanic/Latin numbers at 6.4%, up from 3% in 1990 and 1.4% in 1970, so more than doubling every 20 years. There has been a noticeable influx of Latinos in the last ten years, so I fully expect the next census to show well north of 10% Latino population, perhaps as high as 17%. Your statistics do not reflect the reality I see daily.


You haven’t studied Praxeology in great detail. Am I wrong?

It’s key to understanding this issue; and any other issue/policy concerning the control of something.


Because I know people who work in agriculture, and because agriculture is where illegal employment is the most ubiquitous. No other industry employs more.

RET can’t call me wrong on that, he just likes to ignore it, and pretend it isn’t relevant.

The truth is that Agriculture is the epicenter for why illegal immigration spread elsewhere. It all started with them. If you don’t address why they’re doing it, then you’re not addressing the issue.

RET is not trying to address the issue. He doesn’t want to understand why it is people feel like they need to hire illegals. He just wants to dictate from upon high, from far away, in a urban center, where the situation is entirely different.

Because one-size-fits-all answers are always a good idea. That’s why he likes Obamacare.

Easy, subsidies. We cost dump on the countries around us. This has particularly hurt Guatemala and their ability to access corn when we’ve arbitrarily risen the price due to our Ethanol quotas.

However, crops which don’t get the same subsidies have over-shored due to costs, that’s pretty easy to see.

As I said before, and as grower associations themselves state; either we either import the labor, or we import the food.

We already have net importation for most fruits, with vegetables climbing to match.

You okay with that qix?


Back when illegals were afraid of getting caught that was true, their fear gave the farming industry the slave labor they wanted; that is NOT true today because the fear is gone.

There is no reason conceivable why an illegal would head out to a rural area and live in squalor for slave wages when they can go to a city and live among their own people who speak their language and have taxpayer funded homes, utilities, healthcare, food and endless under the table work opportunities that pay very well when all of the staples in life are provided for “free”.

It is YOU who will not even acknowledge this much less offer a believable reason why the farm job would be their choice; you listen only to people who have ZERO experience with this issue but who do have a political agenda to create a Leftist voting bloc which cannot lose on election day.


This is a great example, I truly believe you posted that without your tounge in your cheek; you genuinely think you understand this issue based on absolutely nothing but the hearsay you have studied.

I have lived every day of the last 45 years in the exact middle of the largest illegal immigrant population on planet earth, for 40 of those years I have worked in all of the industries that these illegal immigrants work in doing precisely the same work; I know what they earn, where they live and what standard they are held to by the same government that demands their standard of me.

I was doing this back when the farm was the illegals primary work choice and I have watched the migration to other industries as the respect for American Law has diminished, I know how they have polluted the wage market with their subsidized personal lives and the ability to work industries without observing any laws or regulations, I know the network they utilize when they arrive here to get on the dole and get working.

But you are convinced that you know more because you have “studied” the issue; I am also certain that when you write things like this you have no idea that you discredit yourself :wink:

So carry on!


Because they grew up on farms, and it’s all they know? Because farms enable migrant communities, people who move from place to place, in a way city jobs don’t?

Again, per industry, none employs more illegals than Agriculture. Plenty are still choosing to work in it, so something about what you’re saying here, doesn’t add up.

You also avoided what I said; it’s the epicenter. They started it all, you admit this. Thus, if you don’t address why they’re using illegals, you’re not addressing the issue.

There should be no objection, no complaint, to a guest worker program, that gets them all the workers they need.

The alternative is that they keep using illegals. You can’t deny this RET. It’s supply & demand.

Farmers have stated that the legal system doesn’t bring enough people in. That’s the problem, so why don’t we solve it?

I know people who work on farms, so you’re wrong.

They’re not politicians, they’re people you’ve chosen to ignore, because you apparently think their problems are “inconvenient”.


Yes it is.

The seen and the unseen. You’re forgetting the second part. I think that’s why you discount people living in different places, with different experiences from you.

You just pretend that what you see, is all there is. That there’s nothing more to the issue.

Bastiat called BS on that approach 200 years ago.

I live & work with illegals everyday. I talk to them. Do you RET?

Or are you only judging what they’re doing at a distance? Are you just assigning motives, not asking?

And because I talk to the people in question, both employers and migrants involved, so again, have you?


Ridiculous in every way, Mexico has far more construction type jobs than farm jobs and ANYONE who has EVER worked on a farm KNOWS that you become skilled in multiple construction disciplines if you “grew up on a farm”.

But I bet all of the “experts” that you get your hearsay from have never spent a single day “working on a farm” so your argument sounded great when they dreamed it up.


Who told you this?
There are large Mexican communities in every city that have complete retail sectors that don’t even speak English, an illegal who goes there will find instruction for how to get on the dole and how to start working immediately. All of them work for cash under the table through pseudo “contractors” and they can cycle in and out of multiple crews who do multiple aspects of construction.

Of course, you would have to have worked at least SOME on construction to know this, something the “experts” who provide your hearsay have never done so I am sure your argument sounded great when they dreamed it up.


Absolutely invented claim, you always claim to have reliable statistics regarding what ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are doing in every way, as if these criminals are checking in with the Democrat Party when they get here and keep them apprised of their every subsequent decision.

We have 20 to 30 million illegal immigrants since the Reagan amnesty by most edtimates that I have heard (and I think that is quite low), that is enough to work every farm in America quite easily yet Farmers cannot get labor…

Because nobody will live in squalor working as a slave when they can live better than ever before on the dole in a city and pocket far better money working there.


You could evacuate the entire nation of Mexico into the U.S and you would not fill those farm jobs, the idea that you think Mexicans are so stupid that they would choose rural slave work when they have no reason to hide is a pretty insulting opinion; and proof that you do not know the illegal immigrant population or understand the basic Market forces that influence all humans.


What I “see” is the vast majority of what is happening regarding illegal immigration, wherever you are I can guarantee you don’t have a fraction of the population made up of illegal immigrants as where I live and work.

Your imaginary arguments were not even imagined by you! You bring hearsay imaginary arguments and that is evident in every post and every ludicrous claim that you make.


Who cares what “Migrants” do?

Migrants are obeying the laws of the United States, illegal immigrants are criminals; your constant attempts to equate the 2 groups is just a giant neon sign proclaiming that you know that you have no defensible argument.


I would be willing to bet that I know 25 illegal immigrants personally for every one that you know; I would also bet that I have worked side by side with illegal immigrants over 1000 hours for every 1 hour you have worked side by side with illegal immigrants in your lifetime; in fact I would make that bet for just any one of the last 3 decades of my life against your entire life.