Birthright Citizenship Ended by Executive Order


#161

“Normal” people don’t intentionally break the law just because doing so will eventually benefit them. “Normal” people respect the law and adhere to it.


#162

They do when you don’t give them another choice.

And that’s the point; the lawful system is intentionally blocking people who shouldn’t be blocked. Too many for the wider market to accept.

If you block too many, it’s the same as creating the black market.


#163

Nonsense. We’re not “blocking people who shouldn’t be blocked.” We’re blocking people who refuse to follow OUR laws about coming into the country. If they refuse to follow THOSE laws, why would we EVER get the idea that they’ll be law-abiding contributors to this country after they disappear into our urban wildernesses? In a LOT of cases, our skepticism about them is well-justified.


#164

Democrats have been saying for at least 15 years that being so poor you can’t afford to eat, makes you fat.


#165

Yes we are. We’re blocking people who don’t have certain work skills or education, even though we know perfectly well that businesses here will hire them all the same.

Those people have no legal line to enter. That’s a fault with the system.


#166

BS, of course…once more. We’re “blocking” people (to the extent that we’re blocking ANYONE) who show no signs of being able to fend for themselves and support themselves outside of the welfare system. I realize that there are businesses who PREFER to hire illegals because they can get away with paying them less than they have to pay citizens plus they can deny paying for any ancillary benefits that a citizen might demand such as health care or a retirement/savings plan. To my way of thinking, that’s merely ANOTHER reason why we should prevent these people from sneaking into the country.


#167

The proof is in the action.

The fact that people are hiring workers among illegals, means that there were people we were turning away who were useful.

After all, if they weren’t useful as workers, people wouldn’t hire them, nor keep them on.


#168

Now that’s a superficial explanation Dave. There are more reasons why.

Farmers hire illegals, because the system takes too long, it’s costly to interact with, you’ll need a lawyer typically to do it correctly, and certain types of farming don’t even qualify for legal workers as they need people year-round, whereas the only visas available are seasonal.

If farming has those kinds of caviants, urban employers will have them too. It’s just that no one bothers to ask the relevant questions, and just assume it’s all greed.

Is this cost effective?” “Is it timely?” “Does it offer enough?

And no, if companies are intentionally bringing in workers on the wrong visas just to get them here, it means we’ve been turning away people who should not have been blocked.

When they’re not helpless, not criminals, and not sick, you have no excuse. Let them in. Quit blocking them.


#169

They have two other choices:

  1. Come to America through due process.
  2. Don’t come to America.

The vast majority of the population of the planet have gotten along quite well with those two choices; even moreso when you consider that the U.S. didn’t exist for the vast majority of the history of man.


#170

The final thing Trump needs to do after 2020 is to start enforcing E-Verify on all business classified as large by the IRS(> 25M revenue). After Trump leaves, the odds are very high we get a Democratic president next. And while they’ll certainly scale back border security, the Democratic Socialist ones like AOC are not going to rollback E-Verify on big businesses.

It’s the way Trump can be more than a man standing in the gap for 8 years. It’s how he continues to ensure a much tighter constraint on illegal immigration when the next president is in office.


#171

Do you have the LEAST understanding of economics, AS??? Your posts here indicate not. If you have two people, one an illegal and the other a citizen, vying for a job that either can do with a minimum amount of training, which do you think the employer will hire? He’ll hire the one who’s willing to work for less money and fewer benefits–which will ALWAYS be the illegal. It doesn’t make the least difference that the illegal will NOT, generally speaking, develop loyalty to the employer or his business or eventually demand what he sees legal citizens receiving as a matter of course.


#172

That’s the point: we have illegals, because there is no real line for most of these people to use.

You can wait 20 years, just to be turned away. There’s no clear expectations, other than that you’re likely not getting a visa.

Our legal immigration system created this mess, by not giving immigrants a transparent system they can build their lives & expectations around.


#173

Cool, and that’ll mean a lower cost of living.

If an entire industry is doing this, that means they’ll compete on the costs savings, and the price for their product/service will stagnate or go down.

That’s a solid deal for natives.

We shouldn’t have illegals though, we should have legals who do this. If they want to take a job for less pay or benefits, that’s fair game. That’s the negotiation tactic of anyone with less experience or training, not just immigrants.

BTW, keep in mind Dave, that the common alternative is that the product overshores.
And then you’ll have a migrant making it anyway, just not in America.


#174

So what? Since when is residency or employment in America a natural right for the entire world?


#175

Because that’s the ethic of English Common Law. It doesn’t treat anyone differently on the basis of your nationality. A human being is a human being. A contract is a contract. A property right is a property right.

Also, because functional comparisons, shows that this is how you create prosperity. More people = better matching of skills to demand, leading to the economy growing more, leading to more job creation.

Which is the point no one leveraging “immigrants takes jobs” ever talks about. How does this impact job creation?

And it turns out that it’s a boon.

Chile is bottle necking its economy right now, because it doesn’t let enough people in.


#176

My thought exactly, Qix. NO one has a “right”, “natural” “common” or otherwise, to immigrate to the U.S. just because they WANT to any more than anyone has a “right” to steal, rape or rob someone else…just because they want to.


#177

An ethic not shared by the nation’s these invaders are coming from.

Really? So they have the right to vote and hold office as well, by virtue of being born on planet earth? Forget influencing American elections, Putin should just run for president!


#178
  1. It wasn’t the original ethic of Spanish traders who lived in Florida, or the French in Louisiana, but they had rights under it all the same.

So long as they don’t violate the ethic, it protects them.

  1. There actually are places in Central America that have English common Law, like Belize. There are also Free economic zones which operate under it.

The intention of our founders, was that foreigners would go unmolested while trying to trade or work with us.
Interference with this is one of the grievances listed in the Declaration, which is itself, a document stating the King had violated English Common Law.

Not at all, voting and holding office are not natural rights. Those are artificial rights created by Government, and only exist because Government itself exists. Thus, gov’t can issue or recant those things as it pleases, according to the social charter that regulates them.


#179

They do, because you don’t have a right to block them.

Free association has to be for everyone, or you’re saying it’s a Government created right.

You can regulate, but you cannot prohibit.


#180

By extension then, ANYONE who wants what I own can walk into my home and TAKE it and that somehow comports to your idea of “natural rights?” That’s simply INSANE! I certainly CAN “prohibit” anyone from doing that in my home, so why not in my country? I can prohibit it vis a vis my house and property by simply blowing them away…and be lauded for doing so by most people–even those of good will. If the lefties persist in blocking attempts to secure our borders and thus our country, it’s very likely to come to that. If the left wants to start a “war” over this issue, try to remember that the right owns almost all of the guns and ammunition and the left can’t even decide which bathroom to use.