The Boy Scouts of America, facing litigation, shrinking membership and sweeping acceptance of gay rights, voted Monday to lift its ban on openly gay troop leaders and employees.
The national organization will no longer allow discrimination against its paid workers or at BSA-owned facilities. But local troops and councils will be permitted to decide for themselves whether they will allow openly gay volunteer leaders. …
The executive board’s vote was taken at the suggestion of the group’s president, former defense secretary Robert Gates, who noted that the Scouts are facing potential lawsuits by gay adults who were shut out of positions. But church-state legal experts said the decision will likely just shift the controversy and legal battles from the national group to local troops and councils as volunteers barred from participating file suit.
This is just cowardice, something that those with character would not fall victim to.
The Boy Scouts have just proved that all their talk about “Honor” and “Responsibility” is just a bunch of hypocrisy, when the leaders refuse to accept the arrows that accompany “doing the right thing” then why should any Boy Scout think that these words have any substantive meaning.
The “Girl Scouts” went down the PC Nazi highway first and now it is the Boy Scouts, I thought they would stand by their Principles since they enjoy such enormous support from so many decent families but apparently not; I hope the exodus from this apostate organization is swift and complete.
You said it all right there. Ok, here I go again with another prediction:
Headlines: Boys and parents file suit against BSA for allowing gay predators as leaders to have sex with underage boys. BSA said it does not have the deep pockets like the Catholic Church and are filing for bankruptcy and disbanding BSA.
The govt knows this is what is going to occur, but the Govt wants the BSA to go down the tubes, its too conservative.
Then there is the legal question. In the world of ‘short shelf life’ interactions (think retail business, they come in, make purchase and leave). The BSA is a fraternal organization with a long history. Can they exclude gays, well if you read the Constitution then certainly they can. We have the Right of association. If I do not want to associate with you I do not have to and if you feel offended or you think you have been discriminated against that is too bad. It is NOT discrimination for me to chose not to associate with you for whatever reason I chose, and that includes race, color, religion, or sexual orientation.
[GRANTED the Govt and courts are working overtime to change this]. If my boy was in scouting. I would meet with the leader and look him in the eye and tell him if my boy gets molested the last thing you need to worry about is the Sheriff coming to arrest you. I promise you for the remainder of your life, every time you look at a young boy you will physically hurt, I will leave you with a memory you will never forget.
My son’s former troop, which was both demanding and had a quite a few boys earn Eagle rank, had in place a plan back in the late 90s–early 00s for leaving BSA should BSA lose the lawsuit brought by gay activists that BSA was fighting at the time. BSA won, but then a decade later started this incremental surrender. When that process started, several years ago, my son’s troop dropped out of BSA and became a Trail Life troop.
This further surrender will accelerate BSA’s loss of members. It’ll be interesting to see whether the many troops sponsored by Mormon Stakes will stay in BSA. They went along with allowing gay-identifying boys as Scouts. Whether Mormon-sponsored troops go along with gays being allowed to be adult leaders is more complex. On one hand, troop sponsors choose the adult leaders for the troops they sponsor. On the other hand, when Mormon-sponsored troops go to Scout Camp, there may be gay adult leaders from other troops and on camp staff present.
There is yet a further potential step in BSA’s surrender to gay activists: local councils being given the authority to impose adult leaders - including gays - on troops. I cannot imagine Mormon-sponsored troops accepting this, and not just due to the possibility of a gay adult leader being forced on the troop. How realistic this possibility - local councils having the authority to impose leaders on troops - is, I’m not sure. It would be a revolutionary change in BSA’s structure. Then again, twenty years ago BSA allowing gay adult leaders would have been “revolutionary”.
Speaking more generally, the risk entailed in having gay adult leaders in a Boy Scout troop is unknown. It may be very small or smaller; it may be small-moderate, due to pedophiles who target contexts they think susceptible and imperfect background checks. What is known is that, whatever the degree of risk, the risk is non-zero, and the consequences are somewhere between very painful and devastating.
How far are we from QUOTA’S, they are just around the corner. The head of HUD, Juilian Castro are implementing regulations NOW that calls for govt intervention in any neighborhood that is more than 50% white!!! This will be quota integration forced upon cities.
The risk: If you want an insight into the amount of risk then look at the Catholic Church, then pause for a moment and looks at BSA primarily made up of young boys at an age where they can my manipulated by an adult. The risk, taking into account the factors could not be higher. Remember, the gay preds do not, are not required to identify themselves.
I predict (here I go again) that we will see sex with children as young as 12 (maybe younger) being protected by the govt. Anyone notice the barrage of shows on TV showing children picking their sex as young as 8. And I noticed they are being run over and over at all time slots. IF a child has the right to chose its sex at age 8 then they are having sex, its goes with the choice. A childs right to chose its sex, become its right to have sex with any consenting adult…
Pedophiles (hetero OR homo) are drawn to places where they have a high probability of having “alone time” with their prey. School band leaders, camp counselors, boy and girl scout “leaders,” boy’s choir leaders, teachers, amusement park employees, etc. Of course nowhere NEAR “all” such workers are predators–but a significant enough number of them ARE that serious precautions MUST be taken to protect these kids. It appears that our courts don’t give a damn.
Do any of you have any actual experience with scouting since 1990? Eagle Scout and former BSA camp counselor here. In the late 1980s the BSA began an extremely effective policy change to protect youth from sexual predators. Prior to this big rule change, there were hundreds if not thousands of cases of kids being molested by adults in the BSA. Today it’s almost unheard of.
The big rule is this, and it’s THE most strictly enforced rule in scouting: No adult (except a parent) can be alone with a child. Also sleeping, changing, and bathroom areas are always separate between adults and youth. Pretty simple eh? There are a host of other changes that went along with this but these simple changes have virtually eradicated the rampant sex abuse that used to exist back in the 50s-70, what you’re all falsely imagining as some golden age of puritanical scouting.
The fact is, ALL men in scouting whether straight or gay pose a potential threat of sexual abuse to kids. The BSA is very well experienced with preventing child abuse from occurring. I’ll put my boy into scouting and I’m not the least bit concerned about sexual abuse.
Reading this thread reminds me once again where the government stepped in and told men’s clubs they had to have women members. Christian organizations are told they must comply with government wishes even allow and sanctify gay jokes of marriage. I notice there is no push to tell muslims they must comply.
My post specifically referenced, “My son’s former troop,” and “the late 90s–early 00s.” I omitted, as irrelevant to this thread, the facts that my son earned Eagle rank, and that I served on review boards, including several Eagle Boards of Review (not my son’s, of course).
The Scout, now 20, has sued the Boy Scouts of America and a local scouting council for punitive damages after being molested by a volunteer leader in 2007. He claims in his negligence lawsuit that the Scouts failed to educate, train and warn parents and adult volunteers about the dangers of sex abuse.
His attorney, Tim Hale, won the right to draw from more than 30 years of “perversion” files kept by the Scouts as evidence at trial to support those allegations. The files cleared for use by Santa Barbara Superior Court Judge Donna D. Geck include 16 years of documents - from 1991 to 2007- that have never been seen before.
Finding that article took, maybe, two minutes … because I type slowly. I searched knowing, generally, what I would find. That the new policies have made significant improvements, I don’t doubt. But sexual abuse in Scouting is, sadly, far from, “almost unheard of”.
“… the rampant sex abuse that used to exist back in the 50s-70, what you’re all falsely imagining as some golden age of puritanical scouting.”
Strawman arguments are dishonest and unimpressive. If you’re a college prof, you should know that. Since I would, necessarily, be included in “you’re all”, point out to me, quote from my post, where I made any such claim about the “50s-70” (sic). And then point out, with quote(s) who, if anyone, made such a claim. Don’t be putting words in people’s mouths, no matter how convenient to your argument!
The issue isn’t just whether or not boy scouts have been molested before - the issue is that this ruling is, in effect, encouraging this.
Bet me there won’t be a lot of covert homos/pedophiles seeking the position of scout leader.
Actually, I see the issue being whether or not anyone - including those wearing robes - has the authority to force a private organization to accept any rule(s) against its will.
They don’t, but they do get away with it. And every time they do we see another deep gash in the very foundation of the principles on which this country was founded.
And Liberals cheer every time it happens. One of these days it’s going to be their turn.
Convince you… right like you even care what’s true. How about get off your butt and go volunteer to help out the kids in your community (teach a merit badge or something) and if you dare, just try to be alone for one minute with a kid (like a side conversation in the hall or something). A. It won’t happen. B. You’d likely be reported for even trying. The youth protection policies are followed intensely. But with almost a million scouts there are certainly troops that are less competent with the policies. That’s why parents should be involved just like with anything else their kids are involved with. The BSA provides more training and literature on this topic than even first aid, and leaders even have to pass a training class on it now. Here is the basic Youth Protection pamphlet; Youth Protection info for parents; Youth Protection Training
it’s why we don’t have males taking Girl Scouts out camping in the woods…
Dads can be involved as leaders in Girl Scouts and they do go camping. They use a similar two-deep prevention policy as the BSA.