Change afoot on arab streets


#1

Change afoot on Arab streets | The Australian

**EGYPT’S Mubarak must learn from the troubles in Tunisia. ** After the popular uprising in Tunisia that sent the loathsome president Zine El Abedine Ben Ali fleeing to Saudi Arabia, the tumult sweeping Egypt is no surprise. Many of the same demographic and economic problems which brought down Mr Ben Ali also exist in Cairo. There is a similar disconnect between a well-heeled, privileged elite, cosseted by a ruthless authoritarian regime, and an increasingly bitter population angered by widespread official corruption, soaring food prices, a lack of basic job opportunities and torture by law enforcement agencies. Egyptians, like Tunisians and the people of many other Arab nations, are thoroughly fed up. The challenge for their 82-year-old President, Hosni Mubarak, in power for 30 years, is to adapt to the new reality that is forcefully emerging on the streets of Cairo and elsewhere.

Egyptians, as this week’s demonstrations have shown, want genuine democracy, not last year’s electoral charade. Mr Mubarak’s presidential term ends in November. He has not said whether he wants to stay on. If he is smart he will announce he intends to retire, abandon the offensive notion of trying to shoehorn Gamal into the presidency and arrange a free and fair election.Failure to do so will provide an environment in which religious extremists from the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Qa’ida thrive. This would be an unmitigated disaster, with untold regional and global consequences. One crazy theocracy in Iran is more than the region needs.


#2

If he is smart he will announce he intends to retire, abandon the offensive notion of trying to shoehorn Gamal into the presidency and arrange a free and fair election.

[SIZE=“3”]Failure to do so will provide an environment in which religious extremists from the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Qa’ida thrive.[/SIZE]

Well, I don’t know that the above groups will not gain power in an election.

Look at the Palestinians, they chose terrorists. The whole area is a big problem no matter the situation.

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#3

El Baradei is supporting the rioters. So is one arm of the Muslim terrorist groups. What does this tell you. Mubarak is closer to a pro-democracy government than the rioters. And obama does not want to support Mubarak…both he and HIllary has warned Mubarak from doing anything about the rioters. Obama is anti-semitic so he wants to see unrest in the middle east. I guess so is Hillary apparently. This may be another Iran. We abandon them, do not support who more closely matches our philosophy. Watch Mubarak get run out…i think he may already have left the country and the mullah-0cracy takes over another one with help from the west. LEAVING US with one more enemy in the world chomping at the bit to devour us. One more step on the way. No wonder there’s no mention of US or UK in End Time prophecy.


#4

Another radical Terrorist movement…Great…


#5

Obama’s next bad decision ?

By Yasmine Saleh and Sherine El Madany

CAIRO | Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:28pm EST

Protests against Egyptian president spread | Reuters

In his first comments on the unrest, **President Barack Obama **was careful to avoid any sign of abandoning Mubarak but made it clear that he sympathized with demonstrators.

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#6

I thought Muslims did not want Democratically elected Representatives and a say in their own governance?

Isn’t that what the Liberals have been claiming as they accuse Bush of “Forcing them to accept our ideas of government” or the classic buffoonery of condemning “democracy at the point of a gun”?

I thought they wanted Sharia Law and to be ruled by an iron fist?

Could it be possible that all men (even Muslim’s) are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights?

Could some of these rights be life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Could these protest’s be an expression of that “endowed” concept combined with the new confidence gleaned from observing fellow Islamic nations casting off the oppression of a Dictator?

Naw, that is just a dumb American Republican idea, they probably just want cheaper ticket prices to the public stoning’s.


#7

If you are talking about Iraq, it was the USA that facilitated change in leadership.

I think the strict Muslims may take the country in the wrong direction, Egypt has been hit by many violent attacks on Christians.

Again, the Palestinians voted for terrorists. I don’t have the confidence that Egyptians will do any better, Mohamed ElBaradei seems anti-American when I have heard him speak.

Let’s not forget how Mubarak came to power.

Anwar El Sadat (Arabic: محمد أنور السادات‎, Muḥammad Anwar as-Sādāt) (25 December 1918 – 6 October 1981) was the third President of Egypt, serving from 15 October 1970 until his assassination by fundamentalists on 6 October 1981.

On 6 October 1981, the month after the crackdown, Sadat was assassinated during the annual victory parade held in Cairo to celebrate Egypt’s crossing of the Suez Canal.[28]

A fatwā approving the assassination had been obtained from Omar Abdel-Rahman, a cleric later convicted in the US for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Anwar El Sadat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sadat was succeeded by his vice president

Hosni Mubarak, whose hand was injured during the attack.

Sadat was protected by four layers of security and eight bodyguards, and the army parade should have been safe due to ammunition-seizure rules.

As Egyptian Air Force Mirage jets flew overhead, distracting the crowd, Egyptian Army soldiers and troop trucks paraded. One troop truck contained the assassination squad, lead by Lieutenant Khalid Islambouli.

As the truck passed, the assassins dismounted, and Islambouli approached Sadat. Sadat stood to receive his salute, whereupon, Islambouli lobbed three grenades at Sadat, only one of which exploded, and additional assassins rose from the truck, firing assault rifles into the stands.

After Sadat was hit and fell to the ground, people threw chairs around him to protect him from the hail of bullets.

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#8

It was the Iraqi people who came out under threat of death over and over again to vote their new Constitution and leaders into power. In fact, they showed up in greater percentages than American voters even though the Terrorist’s promised to kill anyone they saw at a polling place.

I will not underestimate the power of such a testimony to other people who are crushed under violent Islamic oppression.

I think we are in the beginning of a new era.
That does not mean every uprising that occurs will be for a good cause but in time I believe the seed of Liberty and self determination will grow to choke out the weeds of religious oppression that also grow along side of it.

We will know in about 10 years, I predict a significant increase in genuine elected Republics in the middle east by then.

And I also predict that George Bush will be considered the man most responsible for that great achievement.

I should print this post and stick it in a time capsule.


#9

Seems like the Left suffer from the same inability to understand that Muslims aren’t one big uniform group, like a violent bacteria :smiley: Not all muslims want sharia, and most that do don’t want the same sharia just certain parts. They don’t want to be able to stone adulturers in the UK, for example, rather be able to get an Islamic divorce for their Islamic marriage. Some probably want to beat their wives of course. If we were really committed to womens rights we’d make it a lot easier for our own to get away from domestic violence; with the children. I’ve done it (without kids) and had no one to help me, no shelter to stay in & the police treated me like a criminal for being with him in the first place.


#10

It depends on which version of the left you listen to and when.

In the 1980’s and early 1990’s the “Left” was outraged that we had friendly relationships with leaders like Saddam Hussein. Their mantra was “how can you turn a blind eye to the atrocities he commits just for CHEAP OIL?”

Then, when a President finally comes along and says;
**“Okay, we know this is going to hurt as far as oil costs are concerned and cost a lot of money, but our new policy is we will no longer pretend these leaders are our friends. We will now draw no distinction between the Terrorist’s who commit these acts and the governments that encourage and support them”
**

All of a sudden (since the President was a Republican) the Left decides Saddam was not really a bad guy after all and we should have left him alone.

The Left take whatever position they think will oppose the GOP.

Even if they vote almost unanimously to send our troops to war (to avoid losing an election) they have no conscience restraining them from condemning those same soldiers and seeking to turn public opinion against them while they are still in harms way, also to win an election.

The Islamic nations are just another tool to Demoncrat’s.

If they can win points by crying over those poor suffering people they will cry.

If they can win points by portraying those people as buffoons who we should have left alone because they really prefer being ruled with a vicious iron fist then that will be their position.

It can change as quick as the votes are tallied.

Before the November 2008 election the War On Terror was is every newspaper and on every news program every single day.

Everyone who follows news had the “death count” on the tip of their tongue because the media showed the recent and collective stats on our casualties in a graphic that was updated every day.

Since Obama was elected how often have you seen that graphic?
How many scruffy little war protest groups have made the national news?
How often is the philosophy of our President in how this war is being fought challenged by “talking heads”?

The “Liberal Outrage” is quite selective and none of their “positions” are based on principle.

That is why I respected Bush so much in spite of him not being a Conservative on issues very important to me.
He always did what he thought was right, whether 90 percent agreed with him or 90 percent opposed him.

He never sacrificed his conscience or what he believed was best for his nation to appease anyone or turn short term poll results around.


#11

Hmm. I tend left on social issues mainly but always for the same reasons & principles so that would annoy me. Sounds like the left are good at manipulation but then you’re highly biased :biggrin:

Um, I actually thought the war is over…am I wrong?

Our left & right as I’ve said are confusing on issues, the conservative side seems to be more consistent but every state Government is Liberal (con) and the federal gov is Labour (leftish) and it’s been that way for a while now. So Labour has been moving right, I suspect for votes. The Greens are our third party, they are quite left lol. That’s why they became a dominant power in the last election along with the two majors, left voters got p*d off at Labour. So this makes things a bit silly, currently the problem is immigration. We need a lot more people, but how’s this for ridiculous;

Julia Gillard understands we have a labour shortage, which is why she announced an expansion of the 457 visa program yesterday, to supply more temporary skilled migrants for the Queensland reconstruction program. Good but not good enough. Our labour shortage is national, not regional, long term not transitory, and it will damage the whole economy if we are not careful. This is exactly the reverse of what the anti-immigration lobby argues. We do not run a risk of migrants taking jobs away from Australians. Rather, as Access Economics argues, we need more migrants to meet existing and imminent demands for labour. We are already under-performing on exports. Given demand in Asia, we could be doing better – if we had the workers.

And we could have them if both sides of politics had not connived to avoid a rational debate over immigration during the election. The conservatives promised to cut immigration when they thought it necessary, but were hazy on the details. The Prime Minister assured us she wanted a “sustainable” population. They were both appealing to a grab bag of popular prejudice on migration. Some people fear foreigners will take their jobs. **Green zealots believe humans are a blight on the landscape. **Others confuse immigration and border protection and some think our cities are too crowded, blaming migrants whenever they are stuck in traffic. ****

What they all ignore is immigrants are part of the solution to our problems. More migrants, especially ones with job-generating skills, expand the economy, helping to pay for improved infrastructure.

Lol ‘they took oor jawbs!’. I have to admit I get annoyed trying to walk through the city in a hurry because asian people (fresh from asia) have little spacial awareness and a LOT lower personal space requirements than us.


#12

Correct, but my bias is created by facts.
All truth creates bias, only the evil find out the facts say one thing but choose to embrace something else.

“To thine own self be true”

The man who lies to himself, hates his audience.

I can think of no better proof of the truth contained in my former post about the media than you asking this question.

No, Obama has continued most of the Bush policies and even approved his own “surge” in the Afghanistan theater.

Been hearing much about this since November 2008?

Sounds like a nice problem to have, we would love to have a “worker shortage” in America right now.

In fact, if the money was right I might temporarily relocate to Australia to work for a year or two. My kids are older now and as long as the job enabled me to fly home every so often I would probably consider it.

I have practiced that quote enough to pretend I am a local!
Just kidding, I stand out everywhere with paved streets.

I would probably look for work in the sticks (like some of the mining operations) anyway. I hate cities in America so I expect I would feel the same over there.


#13

Look at this, our friends the Unions again; Unions oppose fast visas for jobs | The Australian

UNIONS have put the Gillard government on notice that they will not tolerate too great an influx of migrant workers under the 457 visa scheme, even after the Queensland floods.

Ged Kearney, national secretary of the powerful ACTU, said yesterday Canberra should “proceed with caution” in fast-tracking visa applications to import labour to help with the reconstruction. “No one wants to see a return to the sorts of abuses we saw under the former Coalition government where unscrupulous employers were allowed to . . . remove job opportunities and push down the wages of Australian workers,” she said.

Julia Gillard yesterday promised her government would process “decision-ready” 457 visa applications from temporary skilled migrants within five days – slashing the processing time by more than a third

Public opinion is pretty anti-union because they tend to ask for too much and Gillard took over the country with the help of the unions, as she has old links with them or something. So this should be a good test for her. The media loves to put union stories out because they sell well, as I said anti-union sentiment. That article may not seem very anti-union but that’s coz of the code of conduct.

Anyways since visas are being fastracked you might want to look into it. You’re a truck driver with years of experience so you’re not going to have trouble. Theres heaps of sites aimed at unskilled workers telling them how to go about getting the HR license to score a dump truck job. Pay is really high, demand is really high. If they’re desperate enough to go to those lengths to get new truck drivers you’d be right.

All the mining is obviously outside the cities. You could get a pretty good deal because your accomodation & food gets paid for on top of your salary, you live in the camps at the site. And they’re sweet apparently, everyone says the food is awesome. Miners get looked after becausetey need every man they can get, WA needed 30 000 still. It’s even worse now because of the floods, we need workers for the cleanup effort.

I’m not sure what you’d do about your off weeks, accomodationwise. The most common roster seems to be 2weeks on camp 2 weeks off and if you can’t get a place up there you’d have to be another fifo worker. It’s a 2 hour flight back to perth. Apparently Perth is like san diego but the city itself is tiny, with miles and miles of suburbs that have everything so you don’t need to go to the city anyway. But yeah, my mate damien is a truck driver, haulpacks, he recently got a 40 000 pa salary increase…so that puts him on around 200,000 now. He loves it, the trucks are all automated and fully airconditioned, really comfy etc. Summer up there tends to stay over 50 degrees c (inland camps)

You could always fly home on some of your two week off periods. I really think the visas should go to americans exclusively because they tend to go to SE asia and papua new guinea…then again probably not many americans are applying for them anyways. But it would alleviate some of the xenophobia, give american workers an opportuniy & fill our spaces with people who have higher skills, speak english and don’t work for peanuts. The worry with PNG workers etc is to them 50 000 a year is a really high income and ppl here have gotten quite used to massive salaries on the mines. It’s bloody hard work too and hard being away form family and friends.


#14

I will browse around a bit.
I have always been curious about Australia anyway, this might be an excuse to see it.


#15

Hmm. If you’re serious I can ask around so you don’t have to go through any dodgy companies or anything. My mate Leon’s sister has something to do with recruitment at a mine, just got him a job up there easily. He spent 3-4 years as a bus driver to get the experience to head up there and get a better salary. But yeah if you are interested just let me know and i’ll send him a txt. Otherwise I can ask Damien. It’s obviously better when you go in on a referral through mates than through an agency, better pay etc


#16

Well said


#17

I hope those protesters succeed, because change needs to happen in the ME or they could just go “Hordes of Chaos” and we in the states can have fun.


#18

Those protesters were not motivated by Islamic thought instead they were motivated by Freedom of the internet, and Social Messengers like Twitter, and Facebook, and not by Ayatollah’s and Islamic thought.


#19

The protesters are weird, they are greeting the Army, and The presidential guard warmly, but not the police, and security forces.
Watch the live feed on Al-Jazeera Al Jazeera English: Live Stream - Watch Now - Al Jazeera English


#20

not good for the stability of the ME. Not good for Israel, not good for us…REALLY, not good for us. Obama is more like Carter with every crisis. Let’s just hope he is a one termer so we MIGHT be able to undo the damage he’s caused.