Chicago police backtrack after confirming 500th homicide


#1

Superintendent Garry McCarthy had told the Tribune Thursday afternoon that the homicide count stood at 499. Hours later, Nathaniel T. Jackson, 40, was gunned down outside a store in the Austin neighborhood and the department confirmed Friday morning that his death was the 500th homicide.

[COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-chicago-2012-homicide-toll-20121228,0,5456581.story [/COLOR]

Chicago has very strict gun laws and frankly they try to take them away and make it difficult to buy ammo for any firearm. Does this stop crime? I think the answer is clear.


#2

More armed citizens would be negligent in curbing most of the type of gun violence here in Chi-town. Ambushes in alleys and gangways and instantaneous drive by shootings that happen so quick that the shooter isn’t identified fast enough for any automatic action to be taken. Besides the gang members being killed, the innocent by-standers are children on their front porches or they’re even hit by a stray bullet while inside their house.


#3

And the gun laws in place have helped how???


#4

[quote=“tperkins, post:3, topic:37630”]
And the gun laws in place have helped how???
[/quote] I’m not saying they have or they haven’t. I’m saying that more citizens in posession of more guns here in Chicago would do nothing in curbing the gang related murders. During the the 1920’s, guns were easy to aquire in sporting goods stores all over the city by anyone who wanted them. You could walk in off the street and buy a Thompson sub machine gun like you’d buy a bowling ball. The gang violence and murder rate was still rampant in this town. Legal access to guns did zero to stop the gang murders.


#5

You can’t say that. You have no way of knowing how many of those murders, muggings, break ins, rapes or any other crimes would or would not have been prevented if the law abiding citizens had been able to exercise their Second Amendment rights. What we do know is that cities like Chicago that keep enacting more and tougher gun laws do have more violent crimes then before those laws were adopted.


#6

Guns in the hands of good people don’t kill people. Guns in the hands of bad people kill people. The problem is a cultural problem. The problem is not dealing with people before they become bad people. The problem is a lack of respect for life and for others. The American problem isn’t their guns, it’s their people.


#7

[quote=“tperkins, post:5, topic:37630”]
You can’t say that. You have no way of knowing how many of those murders, muggings, break ins, rapes or any other crimes would or would not have been prevented if the law abiding citizens had been able to exercise their Second Amendment rights. What we do know is that cities like Chicago that keep enacting more and tougher gun laws do have more violent crimes then before those laws were adopted.
[/quote] History. Look at the Crime rate in Chi-town in the 20’s and 30’s when you could by a gun like a candy bar. The weapons used in the St Valentines day massacre were purchased legally at a sporting goods store on Diversey parkway. I’m all for citizens having the right to own firearms. But citizens in a city like Chi-Town packing heat isn’t going to curb crime as history shows. Stats for crime during prohibition.

The following are statistics detailing how much worse crime got:

Police funding: INCREASED $11.4 Million
Arrests for Prohibition Las Violations: INCREASED 102+%
Arrests for Drunkenness and Disorderly Conduct: INCREASED 41%
Arrests of Drunken Drivers: INCREASED 81%
Thefts and Burglaries: INCREASED 9%
Homicides, Assault, and Battery: INCREASED 13%
Number of Federal Convicts: INCREASED 561%
Federal Prison Population: INCREASED 366%
Total Federal Expenditures on Penal Institutions: INCREASED 1,000%

And at least here in Chicago, legal guns were easy to get.


#8

Nice, pick Prohibition for your example. Quiz time, what started the rise of the gangs in Chicago and how honest were the cops? Half your answer is in your stats. A Government trying to legislate morality and a corrupt police force make for lots of undefended sheep.


#9

[quote=“samspade, post:1, topic:37630”]
Superintendent Garry McCarthy had told the Tribune Thursday afternoon that the homicide count stood at 499. Hours later, Nathaniel T. Jackson, 40, was gunned down outside a store in the Austin neighborhood and the department confirmed Friday morning that his death was the 500th homicide.

[COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-chicago-2012-homicide-toll-20121228,0,5456581.story [/COLOR]

Chicago has very strict gun laws and frankly they try to take them away and make it difficult to buy ammo for any firearm. Does this stop crime? I think the answer is clear.
[/quote]The point stands.

Chicago has a far lower population than NYC and NYC is poised to end the year with around 414 homicides. One poster aptly described Chicago as a city “where dead people vote and live people dodge bullets.” Great tribute to Obama’s community organizing.


#10

The Saint Valentine’s Day Massacre was National news because 7 mobsters were executed, such a crime in Chicago today would not even be mentioned outside the local media.

The Prohibition days were not even close per capita as the murder rates today;

Same criminal element, same corrupt government and police, yet far more murders with strict gun control laws.

This chart only covers up till 2008, things are even worse now.


#11

Interesting upward trend jumps around 1967 and 1968 and a horrendous rise ~1967-~1973. Looks like a possible start of another upward jump around 2007. Correspondingly, there’s an interesting significant fall ~1997-~2003. It would be speculative, but it would be interesting to consider those trend changes and years-long rises/falls in light of things happening in US culture and laws. I suspect multiple factors were always in play (IMO, that’s kind of, “Du-uhhh!”, but some folks like to think in single-cause terms).


#12

I have made several comments regarding the violence and crime rate in Chicago, but have been told I didn’t know what I was talking about. Here is clear evidence of what I know to be true. And, gun laws do nothing to curb violence. I don’t understand how a person with an average–or even low–IQ can’t see this. How many gangbangers in Chicago purchase guns legitimately? How many of them register their guns? These are ridiculous questions because we all know the answers to these questions. If more lawful citizens carried guns and used them against violent perpetrators, we’d have less crime…and less criminals. Besides, 99% of these violent crimes are committed in gang-infested neighborhoods. Let them kill each other. Unfortunately, the innocent by-stander and children are the real victims of these crimes. Years ago when I was in my early 20’s, I was in downtown Chicago and got lost. I managed to find myself in front of Cabrini-Green (a notoriously violent gang-infested housing project) in the middle of the day. While sitting for a red light, a young black boy snuck behind me and ripped my purse out of my car (which was sitting next to me on the right). It took me nearly 10 minutes to finally flag a cop. When I told them what happened, they laughed at me and said, “Do you expect us to go in there to find your purse?” That was back in the early 70’s. He told me that the cops won’t even go inside CG. That is nothing less than living in a jungle. And, it is probably 1000 times worse than it was.


#13

Exactly. That is what I’ve said a number of times on this forum. When you look at the demographics of crime, you can see very clearly that the majority of crimes–particularly violent crimes–occur in black or hispanic areas. Why? Because of the breakdown of the family unit. There are no fathers to bring up their sons and mothers who are usually young with several children all of whom have different absent fathers. There are generations of black families living off of welfare. The facts speak for themselves. Until something can be done about young black women having multiple babies with multiple males, living off of welfare, and an insistence that blacks be held to the same moral and behavioral rules as others (letting them behave in such violent and criminal ways is the height of racism), there will always be violence and murder growing exponentially in these communities.


#14

I do believe OSB is yanking chains.
Maybe he truly does believe that firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens won’t curb the violence. But that’s just saying he thinks gang members are better shots.

Troll much?


#15

There are generations of black families living off of welfare. The facts speak for themselves. Until something can be done about young black women having multiple babies with multiple males, living off of welfare, and an insistence that blacks be held to the same moral and behavioral rules as others (letting them behave in such violent and criminal ways is the height of racism), there will always be violence and murder growing exponentially in these communities.

I know you were speaking of blacks in this context as the group in which this problem is proportionally most prevalent, not as being racially inferior in any sense. And in saying that, there is no “but” following behind that statement. What you speak of is in the nature of humans generally (though many do not let it run their lives). At this point all my relatives are of non-Hispanic European ethnicity, and there are a few who are creating/birthing children who could become third generation government-dependents.

IMO, government should not try to mandate through criminal law responsible behavior. But it should stop subsidizing it! Where have I seen a comment along those lines …?


#16

I can find countless neighborhoods/areas/people who commit violent crimes. This has nothing to do with their color, it has to do with the society surrounding them. You’re spot on as far as the reasoning you gave for more violence but specifying color or ethnicity is pointless. If you’re poor, have family problems and have a bad education then you’re more likely to commit a crime, yes.


#17

[quote=“2cent, post:14, topic:37630”]
I do believe OSB is yanking chains.
Maybe he truly does believe that firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens won’t curb the violence. But that’s just saying he thinks gang members are better shots.

Troll much?
[/quote] More guns in the hands of more citizens will do very little to combat most of the type of crimes that we have here in the city. My other point was history shows that having easy access to guns does very little to curb crime in a town like Chicago. Between 1870 and 1920, Chicago’s crime rate grew at an essentially steady pace, reaching a peak of 10 per 100,000 in 1919. During this period, Chicago was growing in population and density. With the onset of national Prohibition in 1919, many of these immigrants gained lucrative employment in the bootlegging field, and for the first few years of the 1920s, at least, murder rates fell by nearly 50%. But as the various parts of Johnny Torrio’s syndicate began falling apart in 1924, culminating in the murder of Torrio’s north side associate Dion O’Banion, likely at the hand of his south side associates, the Genna brothers, Chicago’s “Beer Wars” began, and the murder rate skyrocketed by 250% between 1923 and 1928. Even as Prohibition ended in 1931, murder rates remained high throughout the early 1930s, the worst years of the Great Depression, before falling below 5 per 100,000 in 1943. No doubt the massive mobilization of American men out of Chicago and into military companies in army barracks and overseas locations played no small role in the low murder rates of the early 1940s men have traditionally constituted the vast majority of both murderers and murder victims.
After WWII, Chicago’s murder rate again began to climb as the city continued growing in size until around 1950. The city’s demographics also changed during this period, as increasing automobile ownership and better highways allowed families seeking larger homes to commute from the suburbs, while younger cohorts without children remained in the city (most murderers are drawn from the ranks of 17-24 year olds).
Between 1943 and 1965, Chicago’s murder rate rose at a roughly constant rate, increasing by 1 per 100,000 about every three years. However, between 1965 and 1970, the murder rate rose much more dramatically, increasing from 11 per 100,000 in 1965 to 24 per 100,000 in 1970. Guns were legal and easily obtainable in Chicago throughout this whole period. More legal guns do not equal less crime.


#18

Oh, you live in Chicago and are an expert on their corruption and gang activities. Here I thought you worked for the railroad.


#19

[quote=“tperkins, post:18, topic:37630”]
Oh, you live in Chicago and are an expert on their corruption and gang activities. Here I thought you worked for the railroad.
[/quote] I consider myself quite knowledgeable on the history of organized crime and the Chicago outfit in particular. I’ve researched it a great deal and I find it facinating.


#20

I can find countless neighborhoods/areas/people who commit violent crimes. This has nothing to do with their color …

I already pointed this out, along with the likely fact that CT’s comment cited communities in which the problem is disproportionately prevalent. My guess is that CT thought it should be unnecessary to point out that she was not implying any racial tie to crime or poverty. And if my guess is correct, she was right, she should not have had to say that. My post above stemmed from years of participation in Internet discussion forums and seeing that very kind of strawman argument posted.

The poverty = criminal equation is so riddled with exceptions as to be tenuous at best. To cite some well-known exceptions among blacks: Ben Carson; Clarence Thomas; Herman Cain; Wilma Rudolph. Two other well-known names came to mind as well, Alan Keyes and Condoleeza Rice, whose upbringing was not in poverty, but was probably not exactly fancy, either. Family/Community culture - likely a much better better predictor than mere economic status - and personal choices within and/or beyond that culture pretty much make the difference between a street thug and a world-renowned neurosurgeon or an “ordinary” school teacher.