This processes happened a long time ago. Today’s plants are not transformed into coal. Else oil fields or coal mines would grow back. As I know this is not the case.
You claimed that C-Atoms which plants take up remain in the compost resp. earth after the plant’s lifetime.
By your logic:
If C-Atoms do not move back into the atmosphere but stay in the ground, the ratio of C-Atoms in the earth must increase over the time. This would imply:
- in the earth under a very old forest there must be very much carbon
- over the time more and more C-Atoms get accumulated in the ground
These are implications of YOUR theory. So why do you say: “I don’t know where you got you “science” education, but you need to go back to school”? I’m just referring to YOUR science.
And it raises the question:
If this process of C-accumulation would continue without limit: Would the earth under a forest consist 99% of carbon some day? If not, where else C-Atoms are going to?
You seem to consider the soil as a carbon-storage. Is its capacity limited or can the earth (beneath a forest) take up carbon endless?
If the carbon atoms are not reuniting with oxygen atoms, then plants do indeed reduce CO2.
Honestly, it sounds like a carbon-oxygen ponzi scheme, which can’t help but collapse. I can’t nail it down and articulate it, but I think our environment (even though it won’t last in the long term) is more stable than that.
Actually, my understanding is that this isn’t proven to not be the case (nor is it proven that it is).
Where do you think coal, oil and natural gas COME from? Do you believe that they just appear, full-blown out of nothing?
[quote=“philipp, post:141, topic:54931”]
quoting Yjacket:Ever heard of coal and oil? And to a lessor volume diamonds?
quoting philipp:This processes happened a long time ago. Today’s plants are not transformed into coal. Else oil fields or coal mines would grow back. As I know this is not the case.
Yup. It takes mega years for coal and other hydrocarbons to form as vegetable matter decays. Since you are claiming that you know this is not the case I must wonder just where you have been educated.
quoting Philip: So you say, in the earth under a very old forest there must be very much carbon?
And over the time more and more C-Atoms get accumulated in it’s ground?[/quote]
How about that. Just how do you figure coal fields, everything from low grade lignite to high grade anthracite, were formed??
In the past very special ecological circumstances prevailed. And these conditions aren’t given no longer today. Coal and oil don’t develop if you just dig in a piece of wood.
Since you asked me: Where do you think coal, oil and natural gas COME from?
So you say that coal and oil field are still growing today (albeit slowly within mega years)?
I’ll answer to this more extended later because the thing is complicated, but for now:
Is it possible that plant’s carbon atoms are NOT reuniting with atmosphere’s oxygen atoms after the plant’s death? And if yes, in which ways?
No, I do not claim that the known oil and coal reserves are growing larger today because they have been moved from the source of initial carbon deposits, along with other geological changes.
However, I suspect that this is what is happening, especially in the jungles of the South American Continent and the African Continent. Who knows how many centuries these jungles will exist? The geological changes of plate movement may provide the initial flood and soil coverage necessary for hydrocarbon formation. We believe that the known and being mined coal fields were covered in lakes or seas prior to several layers of other geological activity covering them in depth with soil.
Actually I am wondering if you are having trouble understanding that major geologic changes do not occur in a human lifetime or two.
Like most “greenies”, Philipp probably DOES believe it only takes a few lifetimes. In an old, 1930’s, believed-to-be-played-out oilfield a few years back in Texas, a small oil exploration company on the verge of bankruptcy got the rights to drill on a 120-acre tract in Eastland County, Texas. When the drill reached a bit over 4,000’, the well blew out, spewing thousands of barrels of light, sweet crude into the air. When finally capped, the well was rated as capable of open-choke production in the range of 13,000 barrels per day! When the well was finally capped, the ground RUMBLED underfoot. The company’s owners withdrew their petition for bankruptcy. Opening old, capped wells elsewhere have frequently produced profitable production. Where is all this “new” oil coming from do you suppose? The answer is pretty simple, really. The Earth’s crust is permeable and, in some areas, SATURATED with oil and gas. When you remove a pocket of oil, over time, oil and gas gravitate towards those pockets that have been emptied via seepage!
Does this happen today? Or did it only happen in prehistoric times?
Are these geological changes a sufficient substitution for plant material being covered by swamps or marshes? And do they occur global or just at local areas?
What did I say, that would allow this inference?
Imagine you would bury a piece of wood in your garden and leave it there for a very long time
(longer than your lifetime).
Would you say:
A) It will be decomposed and digested by microbes and bacteria which release its C-atoms? or
B) It will transform into coal (over a very long time)*?
*(over a very long time and wherever it’s gravitating to)
Three things are necessary for plant material to morph into coal and/or oil/natural gas. Time, pressure and moisture. A “piece of wood”, absent those two things would more likely simply petrify–which is an entirely different process. It takes EONS to create coal and merely thousands of years for wood to petrify absent significant moisture and pressure.
Your question has already been answered.
If you plan to quote me in the future please do so and do not add to or delete from (alter) my statement . IMO your questions demonstrate insufficient background and knowledge to continue this discussion. Have a nice day.
Philipp - I suggest you read this translation of an interview with a noted Belgian scientist: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/10/28/the-istvan-marko-interview-possibly-the-best-thing-you-will-ever-read-on-global-warming-pt-1-the-science/
In general it is very hard to keep the C-Atoms within a piece of dead plant matter. If you lay down a piece of wood in your garden, what happens? I think microbes, worms and bacteria would disassemble it and release the C-Atoms into atmosphere (bacteria exhale CO2).
If you want to lock up C-Atoms within the piece of dead plant matter you would need very special conditions. Additional to pressure and moisture you need to hinder microbes and bacteria to disassemble the plant material. Exactly this requirement was given million years ago. Plant material sank in swamps so (without atmosphere O2) microbes and bacteria couldn’t digest it. Then high pressure and temperature transformed it into coal.
But if you would dig a piece of wood six feet under in your garden or if a tree dies in the forest and falls: It’s not isolated like in the prehistorical swamps. Why shouldn’t it be digested (what implies carbon release) by bacteria, worms,… completely?
You mentioned geological changes of plate movement – Fine. But how can plate movement stop bacteria from digesting plant matter and exhaling it’s C-atoms (till all C is depleted)?
If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a noise?
BTW, I did NOT “mention changes in plate movement.” That was someone else.
If a tree falls in the forest, does it make CO2?
I say yes on both.
Actually no on my question. It only makes a noise IF there’s someone there to HEAR it.
OK, yes - depends on how you define “noise”.
If you say: “noise” is the experience within a conscious being – which is admittedly the best definition – you are right.