Consequences of moral relativity - The Holocaust - WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES


#1

I would like to start this thread to answer some of the claims by moral relativists that, “although they personally find human brutality to be morally wrong, they could not stop another, or condemn another for certain barbarous or brutal acts”.

I will start with these two videos:

Children of the Holocaust - YouTube

Children of the Holocaust - YouTube (a different one from the one above)


#2

In such context, moral relativity becomes so twisted so as to become, well, immoral. Irrespective of religion (although religion is an excellent device to reinforce moral lessons), “moral” human beings should be able to agree on core principles, and certainly to recognize - and to oppose - the evil that was Hitler.

The scariest aspect of the Hitler phenomenon was the number of “good Germans” who turned a blind eye, and rationalized, the evil in their midst. Isn’t that a form of moral relativism, too?


#3

[quote=“Jazzhead, post:2, topic:38580”]
In such context, moral relativity becomes so twisted so as to become, well, immoral. Irrespective of religion (although religion is an excellent device to reinforce moral lessons), “moral” human beings should be able to agree on core principles, and certainly to recognize - and to oppose - the evil that was Hitler. The scariest aspect of the Hitler phenomenon was the number of “good Germans” who turned a blind eye, and rationalized, the evil in their midst. Isn’t that a form of moral relativism, too?
[/quote]Yes that is also moral relativism too Jazzhead, but I would think that deep down inside, some of those Germans knew it was wrong but they did t have the courage to speak out while others were completely hypnotized by Hitler.The point is that in a completely morally relativistic world this act by hitler is no diffence than someone having a peanut butter sandwich on a Sunday afternoon.This is the whole point of moral relativity. It can justify any act imaginable no matter how sadistic or horrible it is.


#4

CT, I just finished going through those videos. I felt such outrage, sorrow and anger about how any human can sit by and just watch something like this happen :frowning:
The video is completely different then just reading about it in some random history book. It brings it home in such a personal level. I can’t imagine having children and seeing them die in such a way.
I’m just glad that those children are now angels of God in heaven.
It’s hard to watch something like this and not to shed a tear :frowning:


#5

[quote=“wallstreeter43, post:3, topic:38580”]
Germans knew it was wrong
[/quote]I’m not so sure issues of moral relativity were in the front of German peoples minds at the time (now “deep down”, as you said, maybe), but later those moral issues hit them in the face, particularly when Eisenhower had a German community forced to view the horrors of a concentration camp.

But in the beginning, when Hitler was on his rise to power, inflation was high, unemployment was high, and the lot of the Germans was generally miserable. Hitler offered to provide employment (and even state funded vacations for workers), make the mark stable (though that was done by some dubious sleight of hand by his Finance Minister), and bring the Germans into prosperity (geee, where have we heard THAT recently?).

So, that was the initial motivation for the Germans to place Hitler in power. No excuse for what followed, nevertheless it is more understandable than just electing a monster. Of course, they later found out that their savior was indeed a monster. (The parallels to now are uncanny.)

It is frequently asked, “How could the Germans have placed a monster like that in power?” And the frequent answer is, “They HAD to be morally bankrupt.” While that may have been true “deep down inside”, there was a more practical and expedient reason at the time: the Germans just wanted to get out of the swamp, and saw Hitler’s economic policies as doing that!

When you’re busy draining the swamp you’re in, the last thing you notice is that you’re digging a hole for yourself.


#6

It is moral relativism taken to its natural end. Apathy. And yes, you are absolutely correct that their indifference was the most horrifying and scariest part of the holocaust. That’s precisely why the American soldiers forced the townspeople to walk through the concentration camp. So there would be nothing ambiguous about what happened there. “Evil flourishes when good men do nothing.”

I watched another documentary sometime ago on the British liberation of another concentration camp. The soldiers were so aghast at what they found they didn’t know what to do with themselves. The people there were so emaciated that the first thing the soldiers wanted to do was to feed them–which actually can kill a person who hasn’t had food for so long. It took the British 2 weeks to remove the rotting corpses to a massive grave before they could even begin to take care of those who were still alive. There were over 30,000 living corpses in varying degrees of death.


#7

Absolutely, BobJam. I don’t think anyone faults the Germans for initially putting this monster in power. He was a master at public discourse–that’s a fact. He knew what to say, when to say it, and how to say it. He practiced his speeches in front of a mirror. However, when he started to take the civil rights away from the Jews, someone should have knew that wasn’t right. Even if they didn’t, the Krystalnacht (night of broken glass) incident should have awakened all who thought Hitler was a good person. The burning of the synagogues should have awakened the rest. Herding the Jews into the ghettos and then being walled up behind them should have awakened a normal person to the reality of what was happening. The signs were there–just as the signs are here. We stand at a great precipice that Germany once stood.

Here is another video: SAME WARNING! This will bring tears to your eyes. Be sure to note the little boy at the end.

Liberation of BUCHENWALD and DACHAU Concentration Camp - YouTube


#8

In the classic claim that we’re all related to Kevin Bacon, I have fallen prey to that in my own way.

My best man’s daughter was Spielberg’s “Executive Assistant” in the production of “Schindler’s List”. You can see her name in the scrolling credits. So that’s my distant connection to this 7 Academy Award winning film.

And I’m not sure many have gotten the significance of that film being in black and white, and in documentary fashion.

There is a scene of a little girl, and the film high lites her pink coat in color (there was actually a real little girl in the camp that was noted for her red coat, though the real one survived, the character in film did not) Toward the end of the movie you see another color shot of her pink coat, except this time it is without the little girl and is on top of a wagon of clothing taken from camp inmates. The conclusion is obvious yet striking because of the contrast of the color filming . . . the little girl was murdered by the Nazis in a concentration camp!


#9

Hitler kept most of this horror away from the public’s eye, the propaganda was constant but the pictures that would have humanized the victims and displayed the brutality of the Nazi’s was not out front.

This is the same tactic the Extreme Left uses in the abortion debate. They strongly oppose and censor any images that accurately portray the baby before, during and after they kill it while providing a continual propaganda stream filled with words like “Reproductive Rights”, “Choice”, “Privacy” and idiocy about what qualifies a human as a “Person”.

The main difference is that our modern “Moral Relativists” have amassed a death toll 10 times larger than Hitler and their Holocaust is still going strong.


#10

I know the little girl for whom you are referring. (Not THE little girl, but the person in the movie!) Schindler’s List is probably one of the best movies ever made about the horrors of the Holocaust. And, the movie shows how a nazi businessman realizes eventually the evil that is taking place in his own country and city. Oskar Schindler was a card-carrying nazi! I believe that most Germans in the beginning saw Hitler as a “savior” (and he relished that recognition), but not long after, the realities of his sick mind became very clear. We need to learn from this. And, we’re not. It is absolutely unbelievable that there are people here in the U.S. who actually believe that the Holocaust is a myth! And it’s not just skinhead white supremists who think that. There are educated people in high places who hold such ideas. If we don’t learn from the mistakes of the past, we are condemned to repeat them. (Forgot who said that…but whoever it was, must have been a prophet!)

As I said, my main purpose of providing these videos is to show how moral relativism can corrupt decent people, and how it will follow a logical path to a horrific end if not stopped.

P.S. I never heard that we’re all related to Kevin Bacon! Where’d that come from?


#11

Absolutely!! Those in the trenches of the pro-life movement have already made the connection between the Jewish Holocaust and the abortion holocaust. They have been demonize by the left claiming they are using scare tactics and exaggerate the statistics of abortion. Of course, the truth is disposable to the pro-aborts just as innocent unborn human life is.


#12

that was one of the best movies I have seen in a while Bobjam, also a very tough movie to watch.
My uncle ernie told me about it . Ill never forget the look on his face.


#13

Correct Ret and like WW2 they have found a way to rationalize those murders that are still taking place today.


#14

Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


#15

Gosh! Sometimes I feel like I’ve lived my life with my head buried in the sand! Never heard of this! :Thud:


#16

[quote=“ClassicalTeacher, post:15, topic:38580”]
Gosh! Sometimes I feel like I’ve lived my life with my head buried in the sand! Never heard of this!
[/quote]While I don’t play this “Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon” parlor game, nor do I hang out with “Hollywood” types, I have nevertheless heard of this.

However, I would quickly point out that if you haven’t heard of it, that does not necessarily mean you’ve lived your life with your “head buried in the sand.” (I think you were using benign sarcasm anyway.)

I’m sure there are things you’ve heard of that I haven’t. Stating the obvious perhaps, but my point is that this would not make me think my head was buried in the sand . . . only that our experiences are different (stating the obvious again.)


#17

There is a vast difference between the Holocaust - official government policy to engage in genocide for racialist reasons - and the Constitutional right to privacy/abortion, which is exercised (or not exercised) by individuals weighing the values embedded in their own individual consciences in the context of the options and resources available to them.

Some here, of course, insist on criminalization, but the real solutions are prevention, persuasion, education and support. As conservatives, we should seek those solutions which do the least harm to individual liberty. Advocating instead for a police state is a cop-out - why not have greater faith in the moral force of the arguments against abortion, while at the same time respecting the woman’s liberty and autonomy?


#18

That is a fantasy that has no basis in logic or reality, and to keep stating it overt and over indicates that you are either ignorant or completely insane.

As conservatives, we should seek those solutions which do the least harm to individual liberty. Advocating instead for a police state is a cop-out - why not have greater faith in the moral force of the arguments against abortion, while at the same time respecting the woman’s liberty and autonomy?

Are laws against rape and murder a police state cop-out? Should we all just become our own Batman to protect life and liberty. and you should probably look up autonomy before you use it to try and describe abotrion


#19

What’s insane is to rely on the vain hope of criminalization. It’s not going to happen - it’s unConstitutional. But the non-statist solutions - support for contraceptives, support for adoption, financial support for woman who choose to give birth, and, first and foremost, voluntary moral education and persuasion - can and will work.

I am amazed that so many pro-lifers have so little faith in the moral force of their arguments.


#20

So your solution to straying away from the “big govt” idea of criminalization is the “small govt” idea of massive federal spending? :rofl: :howler: :rofl: :howler: :rofl: :howler:

, and, first and foremost, voluntary moral education and persuasion - can and will work.

I am amazed that so many pro-lifers have so little faith in the moral force of their arguments.

Again if you think moral persuasion works you ARE NOT living in reality. The mentality in America is that legal=moral and if you try to presude anyone against doing something legal you will get attacked doubly for butting into their “private” business.