Considering the poor likeability of Trump and Clinton, could Gary Johnson win the WH?


#1

As someone who considers himself at least mildly Libertarian (though I believe wholeheartedly in a strong American global presence to prevent wars), and after listening to Gary Johnson on the issues, I believe that a third party might be able to sneak out a win.

If most of the Bernie supporters voted Libertarian, many Conservatives and all of the Libertarian Conservatives, is it possible that his party could win the WH?

It is such a unique year and all of the circumstances would make it as good a shot as any.


#2

The Two Party System has no room for a third candidate. That is an unfortunate truth.


#3

Considering the poor likeability of Trump and Clinton, could Gary Johnson win the WH?

Good Lord, I truly hope not!!!

Besides, IF a 3rd party candidate gets into the race which draws away from BOTH nominees, none of them will achieve 270 electoral votes and the election would be decided by the House of Representatives…with the work Cruz has done supporting legislation coming out of the House over the past 2-3 years, it is not too much of a stretch to think they’d (s)elect him.


#4

They will NOT select Cruz.

He’s the Outsider. He’s DESPISED - he threatens all they hold dear.

The Party Elites are all about getting donations to get reelected; and telling the sheeple what they want to hear. Witness McConjob’s sliming of critics who think he should have helped use the power of the purse to stop Obama and Obamacare.

He doesn’t WANT it stopped. If it means more power for government and bigger government, he’s all FOR it. And he’s going to mock critics in front of credulous audiences as much as he can.

Republican leaders DID have a chance to get behind Cruz to stop Trump. It wouldn’t have taken much - just someone kicking Kase-Itch’s sorry rearend around a little, would have done it. But Cruz was NOT who they wanted. They want open-borders and more shell-games to hide their uncontrolled spending and printing.

Cruz is done for the forseeable future. Cruz is where Winston Churchill was, as the Tories were denying a crisis and were applauding appeasement. It was only with failure and crisis, that the Parliament turned to him - having no one else to go to.

Likewise, Cruz today. When the wheels come off, will be when voters finally tire of the lies and games and funny faces, and look for someone bearing hard truths.


#5

Gary Johnson has blown it.

When they make Open Borders a platform plank; when they argue the minutia of legalizing drugs…THIS, in an era where we’re creating so much government DEBT it’s barely countable, much less repayable…and when they take the nomination in their tighty-whiteys…that says they’re as addled as the other parties.

Johnson COULD have done it. Remember, the Republican Party was a third party - there were the Whigs and the Democrats. A national crisis fragmented the Democrats; the Whigs were dying of their own irrelevance…sound familiar? Kind of like today? And the Republicans, led by Lincoln, stepped into the vacuum.

But first Lincoln had to show the voters, or the Electors, that the Republican Party was not the John Brown party. That they were not crazies looking to make Arrogant Gestures. That they were willing to make the hard choices.


#6

Our electoral process has made it all but impossible for a 3rd party to win. Johnson may deny that either Clinton or Trump gets the nomination; leaving the decision up to the House.

I am one who thinks that the fix has been in for quite awhile for Hillary. The GOPe had their chance to stand behind a true conservative and failed to do so. Cruz would have obliterated the Washington cartel; with Hillary they are ensured that corruption will continue as usual. Trump IMHO is no thing more than a siphon for the DEMS; his intent was to further fracture the GOP, interrupt the conservative movement and to hand his pal Hillary the oval office.

Trump is losing in the polls, he continues to flip-flop on just about every issue that he has commented on; border wall, deportation, 2nd amendment, Muslim immigration, etc.


#7

Our electoral process has ALSO made it impossible for the urban masses to roll over regional votes and preferences. AS WELL as providing a firewall - which has not worked this last time with the Kenyan fraud; but neither has the Congress manned up to its duty to remove a lawless rogue.

The Presidency was not intended to be, nor should it be, a popularity contest. It was for the STATES to choose a Chief Executive. And personal likeability should not enter into it. The question should be that asked of a candidate for Chief of Police: Is this person going to faithfully execute and enforce the law of the land as written?

That we have a President running roughshod like a princeling-potentate who wants to grow the office to a kingdom, should not change our vote - it should set off alarm bells. NO we do NOT need to change the Constitution to make the Presidency a popularity contest.


#8

A 3rd Party Candidate could certainly win but not anybody that the Libertarian Party would put forth.

And the idea that the supporters of the openly Socialist candidate are the key to victory is ludicrous, if the most moronic and uninformed imbeciles are the answer then the question must be “How can we destroy the United States as quickly as possible”.

It is no coincidence that Clinton and Trump are both courting Sanders supporters and it is no mystery why both Clinton and Trump have publicly rejected Conservatives and blamed us for being “the problem”; Johnson also agrees with both of them on these points.

We do not have a 2 Party system, there is nothing about our system that demands only 2 Party’s; there just isn’t any 3rd Party out there that has formed on a platform that most people embrace.

When one does form the current Republican and Democrat Party’s will merge since they agree on all the major issues and the new Party will become the opposition; this is LONG overdue.


#9

Gary Johnson maybe gets a record 2 percent. It won’t be a single electoral vote (and JPT is absolutely right. This doesn’t need to be made into a popularity contest – I think the Senate should go back to the way it used to be too.) Maybe. It doesn’t matter what polls say now. When it comes down to it, most folks will split off to one side or the other and vote against the other guy. They’re too afraid of the suckiest candidate winning.


#10

People vote, or do not vote, for a number of reasons.

I think it should be obvious that the once powerful political/economic message regarding “jobs” simply does not resonate with many lower socio-economic folk, as many - too many - simply do not want jobs. They are perfectly OK sucking the public teat provided them by both parties at the expense of those citizens still participating in the job market.

IMO - too many voters view elections as little more than another form of entertainment. Look at the 24/7 “news” broadcasts on cable news - these outlets provide one TV segment after another on the election - constant verbal blather for hours on end - the current wall-to-wall “coverage” has been going on for nearly 2 years and will continue for many more months going forward.

The level of political degeneration facilitated by the electorate is nothing short of stunning. Consider conditions at home and abroad, the level of corruption present, the shrinkage of the middle class and our reduced influence in the world and the voters select as presidential candidates to lead the country a man who can’t complete a coherent thought/argument and steps on his member every time he opens his mouth, thus failing to take advantage of the fact he is running against a woman who has repeatedly failed the country at every opportunity and exhibits sociopathic behavior and an inability to tell the truth - about anything. Then, as an alternative to these two slugs we have a man running representing what amounts to the “ISOLATIONIST/POT” Party.

All of this has taken place as the current POTUS, a man who has failed his country at every turn for nearly 8 years, has seen his positive poll numbers increase.

Where do we go from here? Beats the hell out of me, but it is unlikely the direction is up.

Who to blame for this mess? Well, we elected and reelected these fools. Hell, if Obama could run again I have no doubt he would win.

We can piss and moan and point fingers all we want and we can pretend a real 3rd party alternative is what we need, but look - the electorate had conservative alternatives - including a bona fide constitutionalist with demonstrated principles, and he was kicked to the curb by primary voters in favor of an incoherent, tone-deaf candidate with Progressive tendencies.

IMHO - our main problem is addressed in my signature line below. It alludes to our current condition amounting to voter incompetence - indeed, citizen malfeasance. I don’t see that condition trending in a positive direction any time soon and not without a VERY significant catalyst that brings it about, if then.


#11

I agree completely with your point that many Americans on the bottom of the economic scale are not interested in jobs. They are more interested in who is going to give them more free government handouts. That’s why the Democratic Party has won the past two presidential elections.

Sadly the latest crop of millennials who are now in college or who have just graduated have the same attitude. That’s one of the reasons why the middle class is declining. My niece, who is in her mid 20s, and who is now pulling a higher salary that I ever did when I was in corporate America, has commented to me about how lazy they are. “They all expect to be promoted as soon as they walk in the door,” she commented to me, “with very little effort and no accomplishments.”

This is probably the result of all of the “participation trophies” they got in their youth when the kids who worked hard and were winners got the same as the slackers. They have been the backbone of the Bernie Sanders campaign which promised to give them everything for nothing because they are “entitled” in the name of “fairness.”

Socialism has never worked and there many reasons why that is true, but they don’t teach that in college any more.


#12

The GOP is to blame, they are the entity that has occupied and claimed to be the Party of opposition to these destructive ideas while quietly (until recently) wholly embracing these destructive ideas.

“The Electorate” has not had a Conservative choice for decades, the GOP has had Conservative choices every election and chosen to “kick them to the curb” with every excuse from polling data taken a year away from the election to fears that the “big bad media” would tank the candidacy of any genuine Conservative.

“The Electorate” might reject a legitimate Conservative but as long as the GOP is around as the “Second Main Party” we will NEVER know because the GOP despises Conservatives and absolutely will NOT nominate one to lead their Party.

When I see the Electorate reject a Constitutional Conservative with a history that not only proves it but that enables them to communicate it, then I will condemn “The Electorate”; but I will not blame them for rejecting arguments and policies that they have never heard in a Presidential Election.

The voters are continually given the choice between two Leftist/Statist who offer zero respect for the Constitution and promise prosperity without effort and citizenship without responsibility, so they pick the one that most of pop culture says will deliver on these promises; the idea that this strategy could net a win for the GOP is ludicrous but they are willing to lose forever if it means they never have to be led by a Constitutional Conservative again.


#13

So, RET, Cruz was/is not a Constitutional Conservative? Really? Folks could have voted to make him the nominee - and they did not. The Republican Party didn’t stop them from voting for Cruz.

It wasn’t the fault of the GOP the people decided to select an incoherent, passionate, tone-deaf Trump over a coherent, articulate and passionate Conservative Cruz. I think Trump’s voter support demonstrates precisely how utterly frustrated - and bankrupt - our electorate has become. People must own their own gullibility. They wanted a flamethrower to make them feel good - “Yeah, we’re going to stick it to Hillary - Trump will confront her; he will kick her ass, but good”.

Republican voters had their chance and we blew it.


#14

[quote=“MDMikeB, post:13, topic:48825”]
So, RET, Cruz was/is not a Constitutional Conservative? Really? Folks could have voted to make him the nominee - and they did not. The Republican Party didn’t stop them from voting for Cruz.

It wasn’t the fault of the GOP the people decided to select an incoherent, passionate, tone-deaf Trump over a coherent, articulate and passionate Conservative Cruz. I think Trump’s voter support demonstrates precisely how utterly frustrated - and bankrupt - our electorate has become. People must own their own gullibility. They wanted a flamethrower to make them feel good - “Yeah, we’re going to stick it to Hillary - Trump will confront her; he will kick her ass, but good”.

Republican voters had their chance and we blew it.
[/quote] Cruz got ZERO support from the GOP establishment…NONE. Add to that the media’s aiding and abetting in giving Trump 99% of the “air” in the room and NO conservative could possibly have won the nomination.


#15

That and that Kase-Itch was there to fragment the Not-Trump vote. He was JUST remaining in as a spoiler. Divide it another way to prevent Cruz from getting the magic number of delegates.

Be interesting to learn what his payoff will be. Job with one of Trump’s real-developer partners? Position in his Administration? Maybe a promise that Trump renegs on?


#16

I can eliminate one of these possibilities for you, he won’t form an administration for him to have a position in. Though Trump should never be underestimated, he has defied all logic to this point.


#17

I did not say the Republican Party stopped the voters, I said the Republican Party would never nominate a Constitutional Conservative.

I have admitted that I was wrong in my assumption that the GOP Establishment’s efforts to stack the deck against Conservatives was the majority of the problem, this year it was made clear that the hatred of Conservatism is shared by a large portion of the rank and file as well.

So Cruz lost the GOP Primary and the “Electorate” will once again hear no Conservative argument as they choose between two Liberals.

It was absolutely the fault of the GOP, it was their Primary; the fault was not limited to the Establishment but it is clearly the fault of the Republican Party as a whole since it was THEIR PRIMARY.

I think Trump won because the Republican Party is filled with people who want their own bully in charge for a change, a bully that will not hinder their desires by respecting the Constitution.

They are not “gullible”, they know EXACTLY what they want in the Republican Party and that is NOT a Constitutional Conservative.

From their perspective they “blew” nothing, they knew exactly who Cruz was and exactly who Trump was and they went in with their eyes wide open. For anyone who is a Constitutional Conservative to support the Republican Party in any way is ludicrous; might as well just hit yourself in the face with a claw hammer.


#18

[quote=“MDMikeB, post:10, topic:48825”]
the “ISOLATIONIST/POT” Party.
[/quote]It’s so sad that you view the Libertarian Party this way. Pot is big, and libertarians support legalization. I support legalization of it and all other drugs, including prescription drugs, but I’ll trade you those for economic liberty any day. Isolationist is not toothless or defenseless; but Gary Johnson is closer to the mainstream on the war on terror than he is to most libertarians. But he seems mushy on the subject from any perspective. It does him no good with anyone, not Libertarians, Democrats or Republicans.

Those are just two results of libertarian values, and if legal weed is one of the scariest thing about libertarian politics, well it’s not much of a complaint – not when the socialists in the Republican and Democrat parties haven’t seen a bloated budget or government program they won’t inflict on us.


#19

It’s true, Cruz received little support from most quarters - including the GOP. But, then Trump didn’t receive support from the GOP either.

But some of you guys seem to want to leave out the gullible electorate - an electorate in front of which this latest Republican psychodrama played out. Our electorate sees through NOTHING!! To say the electorate is made up of at least 51% gullible, ill-informed and shallow people is being kind.

The sad truth is, in all likelihood this country is no longer center-right and, looking at the two nominees, without question the nation is made up of people who don’t place a premium on honesty. Hell, most voters, based on recent election results, don’t really care about competence/objective results - thus Obama was reelected. and Hillary was anointed one of the nominees.

No, if we - the people - wanted to nominate a Conservative we had the opportunity - he was on the ballot. Run away from that fact if you want, but I will not. There are several reasons Cruz lost - lack of funding was NOT one of them. An inability to get his message out was NOT one of them. Certainly Trump was given the media spotlight - he sold soap for the networks and made himself available. He appeared to be as pissed at the establishment as many of us. But, he could NEVER be confused with being a Conservative.

The GOP cast not one ballot, yet Cruz made it to the final 3. Had Kasich dropped out sooner could Cruz have picked up most of his supporters? I doubt it - Kasich was not a Conservative. It is far more likely Trump would have picked up the lion’s share of his voters and, thus would have won by an even wider margin.

Yes, it’s easier to accept defeat if one can focus blame on a single entity, like the GOP/the Establishment.

While I place most of the blame on our under-informed, low-voltage electorate, I am mindful that Trump’s victory owes a great deal to the do-nothing Republican politicians who infest the ranks of Congress.

Obviously, people wanted an “outsider”. Sadly, they were incapable/unable to recognize they had an articulate, constitutionalist “outsider” being held at arms length by many of his fellow Republicans in the Senate.

In the end, voters elected as their nominee the bright, shiny object known as Donald Trump - a man who is currently inserting his foot in his mouth on a weekly basis; a man who can’t articulate a complete thought; a man who provides a rich target for Democrats and their hand-maidens, the MSM and a man who is currently getting his ass kicked by arguably and objectively the most corrupt and incompetent politician of our time - a woman without any accomplishment to show for 25 years of government service.

The electorate could have ended this BS at the ballot box a long time ago - but did not. If we truly had a center right nation we could NOT have elected Obama twice and we could not have nominated Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump from the list of available candidates.

It is fair to point out that this nation’s electorate has suffered from the influence of decades of Progressive dogma that has permeated our education system and has found an amplified voice in our media. But, in the end, it is the people of this country that have chosen to adopt much of the BS without any attempt to examine the veracity of those teachings and resultant consequences.

It seems to me the elemental difference between Trump and Clinton is the fact he has demonstrated a high level of competence in his chosen field, as measured by results; Hillary has never demonstrated competence by any objective measure.

It is for that reason I will cross my fingers and vote for Trump. But I have no real confidence in the man.

See my signature line below. The sentiment expressed is valid and most of you know it. It’s time the electorate came to grips with its malfeasance and to stop with the excuses!!