Consolidated Gay Issue Thread


#5941

Whether to engage in homosexual acts is a lifestyle choice. Sexual orientation, on the other hand, is not.

Ask yourself, OD - could you be attracted to a guy? If the answer is no, that’s because your sexual orientation is heterosexual.


#5942

You, too, are making the mistake of confusing sexual acts with sexual orientation. YOUR GOD created homosexuals just as He created heterosexuals. Each has the free will to act in accordance with such orientation in a responsible or irresponsible manner.


#5943

All we ask for is proof Jazz. That should be simple enough to provide given you speak of it as fact. It is obvious that it was always meant to be male and female as it is the only way to procreate. Homosexuality is a perversion of nature. And if you are looking to point to homosexual acts(between animals) in nature I would warn you not to compare humans to a lesser species unless you are calling homosexuals animals. I for one strive to be better than animals.


#5944

A person of faith is asking for proof?

How can I “prove” that God created homosexuals? The best I can do is ask you to look to your heart. Are you attracted to men? I know I’m not. If a naked guy paraded in front of me, I can’t see how I could will myself to be aroused. That’s because my sexual orientation doesn’t permit it. And neither does yours, I assume. Well, ask that same question of a gay person. In many cases, they are simply not desireous of the opposite sex. It’s how they’re wired. Again - it’s a choice whether to act on a sexual impulse. But the impulse itself is part of who you are. And it’s faith that leads me to conclude that God created homosexuals just as He created heterosexuals - and in each case, as Dave says, with free will.


#5945

Horse detritus.
If a gay person believes he is “Born That way”, then he surely knows I am “Born This Way”, and still, he propositions me, knowing full well, if offended, I can crush his skull with ease. Makes no sense, unless he KNOWS it is a choice. My ex BIL takes complete offense at “Born That way”, because he sees it as people viewing his choice, as an affliction.
And, you are the one who disparages them by insisting they are afflicted by Gayness, instead of recognizing that they have made a conscious choice.


#5946

I do not believe God creates anything without purpose. God created man and woman with purpose. It takes a man and a woman to procreate. Man and man cannot achieve this. Homosexuality is a perversion of nature born from sin. Simple as that Jazz. I am not saying those afflict by sin should be shunned by society but I am not afraid to call a spade a spade.


#5947

Regarding God, Seravee, you’re entitled to your belief and I’m entitled to mine. I’m not trying to persuade you to view your religious faith differently. My only goals are to make sure that the CIVIL LAW recognizes the rights of homosexuals notwithstanding religious prejudice, and to witness in some small way that gays live lives not much different than you or I do.

Such witness won’t affect folks like Tiny, who’d rather “crush” a homosexual’s “skull with ease” than accord him dignity and respect, but the world is slowly but surely changing for the better. The bigots will die out and meet their Maker, just as those who’ve lived their lives faithfully with their partners.


#5948

[quote=“old_dog, post:5939, topic:33143”]

The overwhelming evidence, to date, is that it is a lifestyle choice.
[/quote]Bingo


#5949

I think you misunderstand my position. because of my views on homosexuality this whole “gay marriage”, we have essentially created a second class of citizen. Homosexuality is a choice. If we are going to start basing laws on peoples choices then things are going to get out of hand. I have no issue granting the the same legal benefits but society needs to recognize that we cannot continue to base laws on the ever changing whims of a populist society. True to the left and the actions you support you have sought a short term solution to a long term problem. Simply making gay marriage legal will not make the issue go away if anything it will just make it worse. We as a society are not ready for it and that has been proven. Equality comes with time not legislation.


#5950

That’s interesting, sam. So you’ve made a choice to be heterosexual?


#5951

I don’t disagree, but like many I am astonished concerning how quickly attitudes are changing. Even ten years ago a gay marriage referendum would have been defeated, whereas today such a referendum would likely win in most places. (I sympathize with the view that the SCOTUS ruling effectively short-circuited the emerging political consensus to afford marriage equality by the will of the voters, although I understand the Court’s reasoning that this was an equal protection issue not subject to majority whim.)

I have no doubt that many will continue to dislike and disrespect homosexuals. Some may fantasize about “crushing their skulls with ease”. But I am confident that, with time, most of us will listen to the better angels of our natures. Religious prejudice is no different than any other sort of prejudice - it is rooted in fear, superstition and unfamiliarity. But as more of us come to know our gay neighbors and family members, that prejudice, too, with wither and die on the vine.

At least that is my optimistic hope for mankind.


#5952

[quote=“Tiny1, post:5917, topic:33143”]
What scares everyone about freedom to associate?
[/quote]I think it’s the fact that some folks will exercise that rights in ways that others find offensive. They’ll exercise their right in the “wrong” way. They’ll, oh, my, I’m about to cry, exercise it in hateful ways. And hate is bad, mmmkay. They might refuse to bake a cake with a two-dude figurine on it. And that’s hateful and bad, mmmkay. It’s sort of like what might happen if we have legal marijuana or cigarettes or alcohol. People might use them, and that’s bad, mmmkay. People might make choices other folks think are bad, and that’s just not to be allowed apparently.

[quote=“Jazzhead, post:5920, topic:33143”]
And if in “that area” folks are unreconstructed bigots, then innocents will suffer.
[/quote]Except that isn’t even happening. Why are you trying to solve problems that aren’t even happening? Is the “might happen” so horrible that it must be prevented at all costs?


#5953

This country is being torn down by “regulations” because of what “might” happen. Besides many that cripple businesses, there is the mandated health care insurance. I don’t have a problem with life insurance (but I do with its being mandated! - that will probably be next) because dying is a 100% certainty; health care insurance is based on a “what if” scenario.


#5954

[quote=“Seravee, post:5949, topic:33143”]
I think you misunderstand my position. because of my views on homosexuality this whole “gay marriage”, we have essentially created a second class of citizen. Homosexuality is a choice. If we are going to start basing laws on peoples choices then things are going to get out of hand. I have no issue granting the the same legal benefits but society needs to recognize that we cannot continue to base laws on the ever changing whims of a populist society. True to the left and the actions you support you have sought a short term solution to a long term problem. Simply making gay marriage legal will not make the issue go away if anything it will just make it worse. We as a society are not ready for it and that has been proven. Equality comes with time not legislation.
[/quote] Quite true, Seravee. Only very RARELY has “the majority” been right about much of anything, which is why the Founders never used the term “democracy” in any of the founding documents, since “democracy” is only a small step away from anarchy.


#5955

[QUOTE=Jazzhead (C&P from quote)]1.And social conservatives continue with the charade that sexual orientation is a choice. 2.Face it, FC, YOUR GOD created homosexuals.

3…YOUR GOD…[/QUOTE]

  1. As I’ve pointed out time and again (and as you and your ilk have ignored time and again), one chooses one’s behavior; nebulous feelings of desire don’t make one a homosexual anymore than they do an astronaut or a murderer.
  2. Too bad for you that Jesus says otherwise:

[QUOTE=Jesus (per Matthew 19:4-6)]4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.[/QUOTE]
God did not create homosexuals, because homosexuality is sin. God created heterosexuals, and a small percentage of them chose to engage in homosexual activities.
3. Are you acknowledging that your “God” isn’t the God of the Bible?


#5956

FC, Jesus words’ don’t relate to homosexuality, they relate to keeping fidelity within the marriage bond. They mean don’t cheat on your spouse. As such, true Christians should worry more about loosening divorce laws than extending the respect of marriage to their neighbors. That’s the way to strengthen traditional marriage. Encourage folks to make the marriage commitment, discourage folks from breaking it.


#5957

Tell us that when the news media allow us to hear about gay “divorces”–which are already happening.


#5958

I wonder how long it will be before the Left claim that “God made pedophiles” to justify legalizing child molestation, if merely claiming that perverts are “born that way” is enough to use a government gun to force everyone else to facilitate their perversions then why stop at buggery?

I have hated authority from the day I was born, does that mean that I have a “Right” to ignore everything that government tells me to do? Unlike the queers I can produce evidence that I was “born this way”, everyone who has known me from the beginning will gladly testify to that.

I wonder if Liberals ever read their own arguments and feel ashamed at the tripe they must write to keep their indefensible opinions and conclusions afloat.


#5959

[QUOTE=Jazzhead (C&P from quote)]FC, Jesus words’ don’t relate to homosexuality, they relate to keeping fidelity within the marriage bond. They mean don’t cheat on your spouse. As such, true Christians should worry more about loosening divorce laws than extending the respect of marriage to their neighbors. That’s the way to strengthen traditional marriage. Encourage folks to make the marriage commitment, discourage folks from breaking it.[/QUOTE]
His words (particularly the ones I bolded) related to the very concept of marriage, which is the ONLY scriptural relationship in which sexual relations are permitted.

And the only way to have a marriage is with a man and a woman. Otherwise, it isn’t a marriage (the “ruling” of the shysters on the Supreme Court not withstanding; eventually, they will be overturned…).


#5960

That’s one of the reasons I support same sex marriage. Divorce laws have been watered down, but divorce is still a serious undertaking, that requires the approval of a court tasked to look after the interests of the weaker party(ies) in the relationship. Opposition to same sex marriage has accelerated the rise of cheap alternatives to marriage, that can be dissolved at the whim of either party. That’s a potential disaster for children. Hopefully, now that marriage equality is here, those cheap alternatives to marriage will fade away.