Consolidated Immigration Issues Thread


#1

We’ve been getting a lot of immigration debate on various threads lately. The discussion itself isn’t a bad thing, but it’s cluttering up a number of other threads; threadjacking is a common practice, but it’s getting a little excessive on this topic of late.

So this thread is here to bring those arguments. An occasional trade of posts on immigration in a nonimmigration thread is okay, but for anything prolonged (and it isn’t in a thread specifically about immigration), bring it here so people won’t be deluged in immigration issues when they want to read and discuss other subjects.


#2

#3

Maybe we should have a new sub-forum:

Dave and Slim slug it out.


#4

I never “slug it out” with an unarmed man.


#5

Let’s not turn the very formation of this thread into an argument. Save that for when a debate needs to migrate here.


#6

Where’s the fun in that :smiley:


#7

I’m here to destroy your fun…


#8

My fun is indestructible :smile:


#9

Magnaclam tongue


#10

I guess that it is about time to post something about immigration:

Report: Trump Will Not Sign Off on Immigration Deal Unless Mark Meadows, Tom Cotton Approve

From the article: Cotton’s influence in the Trump White House has led to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-IL) to admit that he does not want to cut a deal on immigration, so long as the Arkansas populist conservative is in the room.

In response, Cotton said Schumer does not want him to be part of immigration negotiations “probably because I would get a good deal, and he wants a bad deal.”

If Chuck doesn’t like it, that is a good enough recommendation for me.


#11

Me, too. Schumer is a snake…and a poisonous one, at that.


#12

Bombastic Ann Coulter was on FOX this evening. She made an interesting point that 20 years after the 1986 amnesty the 9th Circuit Court was giving out amnesty to people who weren’t were here before the deadline on the basis of “fairness”. I think I remember that from her book Adios America. I think she is a little hard on the President as to living up to his central campaign promises; we are not a dictatorship. Anyway, everyone enjoy the video, she’s always entertaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrpJdHHIUVI


#13

Which of course is just an extension of a band aid, and the avoidance of the real problem;

The immigration system, doesn’t map onto reality.

It doesn’t treat people as human beings, it doesn’t respond to sociology or economics, it doesn’t reflect what it can actually enforce.

In the end, it’s a system made of and for politics; designed to keep up appearances, and to appease niche interests. Only within that tiny domain, does it appear to have any rationality or logic.

To the rest of human reality, to those other domains politics lies on top of, it simply comes across as indulgent sophistry.

The bread & butter of political theater.


#14

Wrong, AS. It’s the “bread and butter” of national SURVIVAL. If YOU want to live in the third-world hell-holes most of these people are bringing with them, be our guest. Just move there. But don’t expect those of us who are rational to go along with your quest for national suicide.


#15

We had double the immigration rate in the early 20th century, in a poorer, smaller America.

The immigration waves were bigger, the immigrants themselves were less educated on average, and we had far less capability to track or contain disease.

If it didn’t destroy us then, it’s pitiful to claim it will now.

Why didn’t Eastern bloc immigrants bring their benefits-obsessed culture with them Dave?

Apparently, you don’t know how assimilation works.

You also don’t get who immigrants are, relative to the populations they come from. Something psychologists know very well, something that contributed to our own culture being what it is.

The biological, in-built personality traits of immigrants; the reason 2nd generation immigrants outproduce everyone else, hands down, no matter which “ethnic group” or “culture” you look at.


#16

Again…this is NOT the early 20th Century in a poorer, smaller America. The illegal immigrants coming here are coming for the BENEFITS that government gives away with both hands. They didn’t DO that early in the 20th Century. I have no problem with immigration, but I want immigrants to benefit US instead of immigrants who want us to benefit them and all their relatives in the “old country.”


#17

You do have a problem with immigration, you stated outright that you want to limit legal immigration to “save jobs” for Americans. (which isn’t right; immigration increases the supply of jobs and employment of natives)

Yet, the only way you get rid of illegal immigration, is by replacing them with legal immigrants.

You can’t change the systemic demands of the economy Dave. Government can’t do that. It can only seek to craft laws in a way people will adhere to; laws that create a system people can perceive as “fair”, and which builds trust.

Treat immigrants with distrust too much too often, then they’ll learn to distrust our system, and you get the result we have. Half of illegals being people who tried to lawfully interact with our system, and paid for it, and those ignored it entirely because they know that there’s no point. If they interact with our system, they won’t get a fair shake.

And unkskilled immigrants benefit us, because we have labor demands in parts of the country, that no else is moving to.

Immigrants are the only way several hundred counties around the country get labor; no one else goes there.

Not simply a matter of “what jobs do Americans take”? It’s also “Where do Americans want to live?”. It’s that latter point that is continually overlooked.


#18

Please STOP with this BS about “nobody is moving to” parts of the country in “need of illegal labor.” NOBODY “needs” illegal labor. They need labor. Offer the appropriate incentives and they’ll GET the laborers they need who are LEGAL immigrants or citizens of THIS country. There are thousands of young couples who’d jump at the chance of moving to a rural area if provided a small house, decent food and a living wage.


#19

Dave? We have statistics on where Americans move from and to.

You can’t claim it’s BS, because it’s not.

It has to be cost effective, or you’re outsourcing the production. Employers cannot spend “any amount” on workers, they need labor at cost, or they get pushed out of business by foreign competition.

As the growers association I showed you before stated, Either import labor, or we import food, that’s the choice.


#20

Of COURSE it’s BS. When was this “map” drawn? You’re trying to claim that Cook County, Illinois and Chicago have a net GAIN in population with people fleeing it in droves? What WAS the “net gain” ONE GUY?