Consolidated Immigration Issues Thread


#584

I’m waiting for the part where I care what California does with its finances. Their own people voted for this.

Social laboratories means States are free to make dumb decisions; after all, experimentation by its very nature creates failures.

I’ve said this for years Qix.

Cool, let them in. We need them. Our demographics are about to tank.

Also, I’m underwhelmed, considering 10% of Guatemalans already live here.

The crisis is that they’re not Mexican, and we can’t simply shuffle them back over the border. We have to hold them in ill-prepared spaces.

Which makes me also ask; waiting for the part where I care about the crocodile tears of a broken bureaucratic system.


#585

And the rest of us pay for it when the Feds subsidize the state…


#586

Yeah, how many electoral votes in Cali? 55, more than 10% of the total. The rest of the country is on the hook for California’s stupidity.


#587

See my reply to FC, above: you’re on the hook for it, guaranteed. Plus those parasites are going to spread to other states, guaranteed. The problem will not be contained within California.

Yes, our social services are not yet burdened nearly enough. And spare me the misleading statistics. I see the reality with my own eyes. If we need the Guatemalans and Hondurans so bad, and they all want to move here anyway, we should just annex those countries. We’re gonna wind up paying for their problems, might as well own them b!@#$! We better hurry up and do something before historical Tejas and Alta California are annexed into the new trans-latin state of Aztlan the way Putin recently annexed Crimea. La Raza changed their name, not their aim.

I hope you like speaking Spanish and being a second or third class citizen…

This is a deliberate attack on the territorial sovereignty of the United States exploiting that brokenness.


#588

Bingo!
And don’t forget the assured mass of electoral votes that come from Kalifornia that are guaranteed to go to AS’s party as long as illegals are put ahead of citizens here; he knows the only reason the Left even has a chance in national elections is because of the welfare state illegal havens like Kalifornia.


#589

You’re talking about an edge case, not the norm.

The money California spends is overwhelmingly Californian money.

Something like federal grants for high speed rail is a far larger, far more costly concern, yet even that is something the Government can stop when it feels like it.

The answer there wasn’t banning or controlling the supply of trains; likewise, you can spend less on benefits, while doing nothing to immigration or refugees or asylees. Surprisingly, that is possible qix.

As Nick Gillespie says, I don’t care about the gov’t **** sandwich.

I care about economic growth, job growth, and uplifting living standards.

They drive all of the above. Meanwhile, declining demographics hurt those things.

Along with a few other important qualities.

I have these people as coworkers and customers. I’m not seeing the threat; do you talk to them?

It’s easy to be paranoid about people you don’t communicate with. That’s part to why the left vs right divide has become so toxic.

Russia as a nation has higher gdp per capita and productivity than the Ukraine.

Take that away, Russia fails to make these gains. e.g. No similar moves were made in the far smaller Baltic States, because ethnic Russians living in those places know that they have a better deal within those countries, than being apart of Russia.

Ergo; your frame doesn’t work, because you’re not accounting for cultural-economic differentials.
Even outright Balkanization can only happen among cultures of near-equal status.

We don’t have that with Latin Americans.

I hope you read Thomas Sowell, and learn more about how cultures actually come to dominate one another.
There’s observed patterns that these things follow, he can help you see that.

He’s not pro-immigration, so you have nothing to lose by looking into it.

No qix, full stop.

“Attack” implies intent, whereas the only “intent” here is people looking for safety.

You offered the truth right there in your own article. This is due to a crisis unfolding in these countries, it has nothing to do with our internal politics. It has nothing to do with showing up the country or Trump.

To imply otherwise is like saying the Irish Potato famine was just a ploy to open the U.K. up to foreign competition and make the Tories look bad.


#590

I’m inclined to think nefariousness rather than stupidity. Well, okay, maybe both…

Magna-Yeah-That Even now, it isn’t. Texas is being infected with people fleeing the failure of California- and then trying to make Texas into California…


#591

There are those people, true enough. (I’m fine with them, btw) They make ideal cover for the rest. The problem is sorting them out.

There is a great deal more to our border problems than Guatemalan and Honduran refugees or Mexicans looking for work. CBP has identified 52 nationalities among the latest wave of illegals. There aren’t 52 countries in central and South America comnined, are there? How dId they get across the ocean and into Mexico, Slim? The provost reports at least 100000 evading capture.


#592

BS on a shingle, AS. These are people looking for the freebies our government provides to anyone who manages to get here and is poor. They aren’t “refugees” or “seeking asylum”. They are seeking government benefits and jobs that pay better than in their home countries. Some are seeking a market for their drugs and some are seeking customers for their sex trafficking. Some are even seeking victims for their criminality. Just how many Americans have to die at the hands of illegals before you’re willing to acknowledge that this is a problem? The totals so far are in the thousands.


#593

Those victims don’t count to the Left, they all live behind strong walls in wealthy communities filled with people who got rich using public tax revenues to bribe voters, unions and fuel crony capitalists; they are safe while the worthless private sector citizens burn.


#594

What’s going on in the Latin Triangle is the most dangerous area on the planet that isn’t an active warzone.

It’s less risky to walk around in ISIS held Iraq. Any sane person would want to leave.

You can’t deny that Dave, not without my having to question your sanity.

Further, you don’t have another way of explaining “why now?”.

Our Government benefits haven’t changed in years; this crisis of people rushing the border is recent. Something set it off; and it wasn’t Trump saying “get your free **** here.” Linking it to the upswing in violence makes perfect sense.

It’s cause & effect. People, families, not working age males, but families, are fleeing these places, because the violence reached the level of a civil war.

Even RET can’t deny that; at best, he’s going to talk around it.


#595

If these people are actually fleeing because of fear for their safety, why not stay in MEXICO? They aren’t in danger from the criminals in their own countries any longer. In short, when they get into Mexico, they are safe, but they don’t stay there. Instead, they undertake a 2000 mile trek to OUR. border. Your theory falls apart, AS.


#596

Most do, so this isn’t much of an objection.

What you’re actually asking is why any come here, and that’s because…

The biggest Expat communities for all of these countries is in the United States (look it up Dave!). America has historically been more welcoming to immigrants than Mexico, so we have more of these people.

It can all come down “Who do I know, who I could stay with?” And the answer being someone in the U.S.

That Nicaraguan kid in the article I showed you before rushing the border to live with his uncle is just one example.


#597

“Most do?” Are you REALLY going to post stuff this ignorant? Most come straight through Mexico to OUR southern border. A FEW stay in Mexico–those that Mexico offers asylum to…a minuscule number of those who breached the Mexican border with Guatemala.


#598

Yup, Unicef reports most are either in Mexico or “Latin America”. It’s partly because Venezuela is becoming a larger, and larger part of the problem, and they contribute 4 million all on their own.

http://reporting.unhcr.org/sites/default/files/UNHCR%20Update%20on%20Venezuela%20Situation%20-%20May%202019.pdf

If we had 4 million Venezuelan asylee seekers, I’m pretty sure we’d know.

Really Dave, when you do literally nothing to understand the situation, why do you feel you can lecture others?

You don’t know anything about the situation. You didn’t even know why people were fleeing.

Quoting talking points or headlines isn’t good enough. Get your butt moving on some research, or butt out.

Anyway:

“Mr. Ramirez said Mexico has repeatedly expressed its opposition to being designated a safe third country.”

Asylum has tacit U.N. involvement (again, UNICEF), so yet another reason why people aren’t always staying in Mexico, is because of bureaucratic categories like this. It’s a point of contention in negotiations from what I understand.


#599

:coffee_spray::laughing:

:rofl:

I laugh to keep from crying, because people like you are building a disaster. Los Angeles will be/is the canary in the coal mine, at least from a public health perspective. The law enforcement and national security problems will be/are more diffuse, but no less real.

EDIT: No more coffee spray smiley? It was one of my favorites…:frowning_face:


#600

? I have coworkers who go through this. I talk to them. I’ve known (or still know) Iraqis, Syrians, Laotians, Hmong, Cubans, Nicaraguans, Venezuelans, and Mexicans. Not to mention the El Salvadorean, the one who voted for Trump?

No one besides me here seems to have any prolonged exposure to the people we’re talking about. Certainly not anything current.

That’s a problem if you want to claim you have eyes or ears on this issue.

Chicago and Detroit are the same way; it’s not because of immigrants, it’s because of how these programs are constructed.

It’s a structural issue that has nothing to do with who is using them, but rather how. The issue of unsustainability is there, with or without immigrants. This is something Grover Norquist points out constantly.

I’ll leverage his understanding of our entitlement/welfare systems any day; he lives and breathes this.


#601

BS, AS. We can see WHY they are “fleeing” by what they do when they get here. They lie, cheat and almost immediately sign up for government benefits, costing actual taxpayers BILLIONS every year.


#602

I’m talking about diseases that have been under control in America for decades. Typhus, cholera, tuberculosis, bubonic plague. They are all making a comeback. Be it upon your head, Slim.

Another problem with illegal immigration lost in the shuffle (it certainly went over my head) is that even where they are not allowed (or encouraged) to vote, they still count for the purpose of apportioning representatives in the house. (Check the rules) How many extra representatives does that net California? According to Pew, 2.2 million illegals in California (probably a low ball number imho), so that’s at least 3 if they all get counted, and California would be foolish to not make every effort to see them counted, wouldn’t they. Just one more way Americans get disenfranchised by illegal immigration.


#603

And ya know how Slim likes to claim that illegals are the only workers in so many rural counties? Yeah, funny thing about this map: the rural states have relatively tiny illegal immigrant populations. According to Pew, that is. You believe Pew, dontcha, Slim? Or do they have a different map when they talk about worker availability in rural counties?