Consolidated Immigration Issues Thread


#142

No, you’re saying this happened post-1986, same as I, but I’m saying it’s because post-modernism took over/was ascendent at that time.

This is shown by the evidence that white people in California changed their voting preference, and are still easily differentiated from most of the country:

In fact, voting participation in California has gone down as Latinos and Asians formed bigger blocs.
California becoming more left isn’t due to minorities, it’s because the urban natives gave up on American ideals.

And I do say “urban” with a purpose. The farmers in Northern California are undoubtedly one of the biggest benefactors, and consumers, of illegal labor.

But they still vote conservative, as they have been far less exposed to the Postmodern upheaval of the Universities.


#143

BS, California is the ONLY reliable red state that turned into an INSURMOUNTABLE blue state in less than 2 decades.

Since 2000 you would not even know it was an election year, no tv spots, no radio spots and no campaign tours; the candidates only come here to raise money.

The Democrats don’t spend here because they know they will win, the GOP doesn’t spend here because it would likewise be a waste of resources.

Our colleges and universities have always been the most Leftist in the world, NOTHING has changed on that front; the Left saw that they became competitive after the Amnesty so they dropped all efforts to win over Californians and focused on increasing the number of illegals while changing the election laws and expanding Welfare to the illegals.

You have been making false claims in every post and you have been making ridiculous comparisons that are in no way comprable; you are not fooling anyone.

And who cares what percentage of any group votes? Our Left would bring in 100 illegals to get 1 net vote if that is what it took, it’s not like it cost them anything; illegals and Hispanics vote 75 percent for the most Communist candidate.

We have many millions of these, far more than needed to establish a permanent majority for the Extreme Left; your ideological brethren are applying the same strategies in Texas right now.

If Texans don’t figure this out they will be permanently Blue in about 10 years.

You should just make your signature “I am absolutely certain about everything that I know absolutely nothing about”.

“Post Modernism”, what a joke; that is almost as dense as your claim that BayArea tech employees were living in their cars while illegals have government homes because of “gentrification”


#144

It wasn’t, it was purple. Since 1920, it went blue in more than half the presidential elections.

Oregon, Vermont, and Maine were all more reliably red than California. They also all became blue havens after 1988.

Something did; the Conservative professors retired, the new generation kept quiet or was run out to the think tanks.

Jonathan Haidt, who became a professor at that time, catalogs that abrupt change.

Yet you can’t point out a single one I made.

And you can’t deny my central premise here either; the voting behavior of white people changed.
illegals nor immigrants in general explain that.

I don’t know everything, there are certain things you know better than I do, you’ve proven that.

But you don’t have a habit of checking yourself. You don’t have a habit of testing your own theories.
You get one idea in your head, and you stick to it.

I’m urging you to be better than that. If I’m blindsiding you here, it’s due to something you can take ownership of, and I bet you know that.

? I never claimed this.

I did say gentrification – higher property taxes and prices – is chasing poor people out of California, and that is true:

Home prices here in Colorado are soaring because of your “expats”. It’s also making us more blue.


#145

1920?

Isn’t that convenient, the discussion always starts with how illegal immigration in the post Welfare State era has been a curse; you object and attempt to use fairy tales of your own creation to blame everything BUT illegal immigration for the issues.

Then once all of your “arguments” are exposed as ridiculous you revert back over 100 years and multiple political environments that ALL took place BEFORE the Welfare State to try and lend your ridiculous position credibility.

I know this complete void in critical thinking impresses your Leftist friends who have been taught to never challenge their “designated thinkers” but it amazes me that you keep thinking it will work when debating conservatives.

But please carry on, every time you shift the post or invent some new history you help the cause of completely discrediting the Left and all of their propaganda outlets. :wink:


#146

I established it back here, you’re a little late to complain now.

Because illegals don’t explain white voter behavior changing.

An issue you’re still avoiding.

With white voter behavior alone, California is still lost to Trump.

Something else happened there, and you’re not very quick to acknowledge whatever that was.

Jordan Peterson has made his name pointing out the same things I have.

If you call him a “friend of leftists”, it just goes to show you’re not keeping up on things RET.

If you don’t see the hand of postmodernism in this, then you’ve been asleep the last 30 years.


#147

MORE nonsense from the peanut gallery! If you removed ALL of the votes by illegals in Kalifornia, it’s true that it would remain a blue state…but THAT is a function of the FACT that 1 out of every 4 residents of Kalifornia was not born in the US and Kalifornia has the largest homeless population in the whole country and Kalifornia’s main “industries”…Entertainment, Universities and Silicon Valley…are ALL decidedly BLUE voters and essentially always have been. Just for example, I was astonished to learn how many Hollywood personalities were historically either gay or bi-sexual going back to the silent era. Gays and bi-sexuals are usually left-wing with very few exceptions such as the so-called “Log Cabin Republicans.”


#148

White voters who do what?

California had a massive timber industry, mining industry, oil industry, fishing industry, Farming industry, Dairy Industry, manufacturing sector and energy sector in 1980; all those workers did not rely on government for their sustenance and they did NOT vote for Socialists.

As the Left destroyed those industries and the job market through regulation, taxation and eventually illegal immigration those workers either went on Welfare, got a government job or left the State to apply their trade elsewhere that did not demonize their industry.

Those that stayed and opted for taking government support obviously started voting for the Left, that was who was buttering their bread and that is what Socielism ALWAYS INSPIRES until the money runs out everywhere it has ever been tried.

Only your brethren who refuse to see anything but skin tone and have a vested interest in importing Leftist voters think “white voting behavior” requires some other explanation.

Like claiming that California Universities and Colleges went from conservative entities to Leftist entities after the 1980’s; that is so ludicrous I can’t believe you would even write it.


#149

I’m talking about white voters. Most of whom are not foreigners.

And in 2016, during the largest conservative surge in years, they voted for Hillary, clear as day.


#150

Which these white voters, voted for. Year after year.

Likely because the public sector unions had some pretty well integrated platforms to argue for it.

And because the universities, spinning their anti-American, anti-capitalist speal, we’re all for it, and pushed for it’s promotion in the media.

Universities are like churches to these people.


#151

It’s not what I said. I’ve explained this twice now RET. Please follow this time:

Jonathan Haidt, whose a university that observed this happening, saw the ratio of conservative to leftist professors go from 1:3, to 1:30, in the early 90s. This had a dramatic effect to the culture on campus.

Left leaning, to left purified. Something like “safe zones” and “trigger warnings” or the Evergreen State fiasco could not have happened in the 1980s, but it can happen today due to that academic cleansing.


#152

Yeah, those loggers, miners, commercial fishermen, roughnecks, welders, fabricators, mechanics, equipment operators, farmers and mill workers were all taking night courses at California’s recently “converted to super duper extra Leftism” Colleges and Universities; thereby becoming Extremist Leftist themselves.

Another wonderful piece of history revision from AS.

Too bad for you that it was the corrupt courts who crippled most of the industries, the legislation that prevented any of it from coming back was passed by politicians elected by the illegal immigrant era.

As was the sanctuary city and later sanctuary state laws, if you guys on the Left had some other filter than the “skin tone filter” this would be obvious to you.

But please continue trying to correct me on the history of the state that I was running a business in and voting in while you were still in diapers.


#153

Nope, the white vote shifted from the start in the late 80’s/early 90’s, we see that in the voting record, and you’re not explaining why.

You’re just dancing around the issue. Do you have an answer or not RET?

And please, go on and tell me that Postmodernism didn’t grow footholds in the wider culture, as I listen to my ex-Californian neighbors exposit feminazi, and progressive boilerplate, about how everything is the fault of patriarchy creating corrupt power dynamics that abuse the non cis-white-males.

Or when I look through a course on the History of Engineering, exposit on gender, race, and transsexual intersectionality, and I can be rest assured that things have always been this way.


#154

The “White Vote” did not “Shift” because their is no “White Vote”, if you spent just one day apart from your racist party you would know that.

Communists, racist, treasonous losers who cannot survive off of the government dole vote for Democrats, it makes no difference what their skin tone is.

As the industries were crushed the people who provided for themselves left and the people who remained and came later were those who were government leaches, government leaches vote for Democrats regardless of their skin tone.

Illegal immigration allowed for this process to be accelerated, millions of Welfare rats in just a few years converted California from a mostly Conservative State to a hopelessly Communist State; which is why you want open borders.

You are watching decades of Extremist Leftism in jeopardy of falling, you have lost all but the biggest lunatics with your messages and the illegal immigrant “Hail Mary” is your only hope.

Your guys took California and they will likely take Texas with this strategy if what I am reading is correct, but you will lose more than you gain in the long run; by the time Texas flips California will be like Venezuela so your strategy will be exposed for all to see.


#155

Cool, you don’t have an answer, but I found one anyway.

Look right here RET:

Practically overnight, Republicans are marginalized… among whites as well as Hispanics.

Nope, I want Bracero.

Get that part right from now on. It’s not a hard word to remember.

Also; Marx hated immigration for the same reason you do. Your ignorance is both hilarious, and self-defeating.


#156

Yeah, I guess post modernism happened overnight, it had nothing to do with putting all the private sector people out of work so they would leave and adding millions to the Welfare roles and government jobs.

And I have no doubt that your side will purge all of the dependent class just like the students of Marx and every other Communist example in history; you are using illegal immigrants and many other “groups” as nothing more than a means to an end.

Once you get the full state control and the populace is rendered impoverished and unarmed you will purge the unproductive just as your predecessors did; there is nothing new or unique about your version of this failed philosophy.


#157

ahem

California was already a progressive haven in most sense of the word, and it had already made fundamental policy transitions before the 90’s ever hit.

Yeah, you did lose jobs due to bad decisions— decisions your own not-Hispanic voters approved of.

I’m sorry you have gullible, economically illiterate neighbors RET, but they were like that long before any illegals showed up.

And now your neighbors are showing up at my door, and spreading the damage here.

Californians are like the Swedish; practically leapt themselves into prosperity, and then they took the fundamentals for granted, until they ran it into the ground.

Right about the same time actually.


#158

The only gullible, economically illiterate people I know are illegal immigrants and those who have done everything legal and illegal to keep them flooding into California.

Like all Liberals you get upset when the consequences of your policies find their way into your own neighborhoods, when it happens enough you will flee but you will bring your politics with you so it is just a matter of time before you convert your new place into the same purgatory that you created in your former place.

Your slave class will not save you in the end, the power you glean from such tactics will be fleeting; history is littered with the failures of those who thought that Socialist ends would justified whatever means were necessary to establish them.


#159

Nope, I’m a free marketeer.

Pretending I’m something else only makes it look like you can’t argue your side of this in good faith.

If we disagree, we disagree, but be honest about what that disagreement is. If you can’t do that, then you’re wasting time for both of us.


#160

You oppose anything that would reduce government dependency and you support only what creates government dependency, anything you say about “Markets” is designed to advance that agenda and that agenda alone.

Your support of the “free markets” would disappear tomorrow if Welfare disappeared tomorrow, that is because without Welfare a free market would steer illegal immigrants away from you just as fast as citizens who are not government leaches run from your party now.


#161

I want the regulatory state disminished to near nothing, the welfare state gone, and for the labor market to run itself.

The absence of central planning, of any kind.

I want free trade, not “managed” trade, not “fair” trade, free trade.

I want a 100% on the economic freedom index.

No RET, you can’t point to any policy I’ve supported that involves the State more in the economy.

We have a disagreement on immigration, and that’s the only excuse you give for it. The only one. Milton Friedman wanted the same immigration policy I do. Barry Goldwater wanted the same policy I do.

You disagree about what the outcome will be, fine.

But you don’t get to tell me what my position it, when I quote what other free marketeers say in unison is the correct approach here.

Ergo, you disagree with the Free market school of thought, you disagree with the Austrians. Be honest about it, and quit beating around the bush.