Donald Trump is correct on taxing China at our Water’s edge!

.
SEE: Donald Trump calls for a 25% tariff on Chinese products

Donald Trump’s thinking on this issue is in line with our Founding Fathers thinking. And our Founding Fathers use of its power over commerce and taxation was very much responsible for America becoming the economic marvel of the world. Unfortunately our modern-day Congress has become infested with disloyal money hungry members who are more than willing to sell out America to foreign manufactures to personally profit in the process! When these members of Congress talk about “free trade”, they are talking about allowing foreign manufactures to freely flood our market with untaxed cheap inferior goods which are produced under slave labor conditions, while Congress then freely taxes America’s manufactures, industries and labor via income taxation to fill its national treasury which increases the production costs of American manufactures goods. That is what “free traders” mean on Capitol Hill when they talk about “free trade” ___ soak the American people and give a free ride to foreign manufactured goods. Is there any wonder why most of America’s manufacturers have fled America?

By contrast, instead of taxing our domestic manufactures, industries and labor to fill our national treasury, our founding fathers taxed at our water’s edge as a first means to raise a federal revenue and had foreigners paying for the privilege of doing business on America soil, just as one does when selling their goods and wares at a flea market! What a novel idea … an America first policy which begins at our water’s edge!

Madison sums up our trade policy as follows during the creation of our Nation‘s first revenue raising Act

“…a national revenue must be obtained; but the system must be such a one, that, while it secures the object of revenue it shall not be oppressive to our constituents.”

The Act went on to tax specifically chosen imported articles and not one dime was raised by taxing American domestic manufacturers, the working man’s wage, or the returns on invested capital ___ all of which contributed enormously to America becoming the economic marvel of the world! It should also be noted the Act was signed by George Washington on July 4th, 1789, as if to give England a second notice of America’s independence while exercising her power to tax foreign imports in order to fill our national treasury.

In addition to imposing a specific amount of tax on specifically chosen articles imported, our founding fathers imposed an across-the-board tax on imports which was higher for imports arriving in foreign owned foreign built vessels, and discounted the tax for imports arriving in American owned American built ships:

"…a discount of ten percent on all duties imposed by this Act shall be allowed on such goods, wares, and merchandise as shall be imported in vessels built in the United States, and wholly the property of a citizen or citizens thereof." see: An Act imposing duties on Tonnage July 20, 1789

This patriotic use of taxing at our water’s edge not only filled our national treasury, but gave American ship builders a hometown advantage and predictably resulted in America’s ship building industry to flourish and America’s merchant marine to become the most powerful on the face of the planet. Unfortunately, last time I visited the docks in New York’s Hell’s Kitchen area, I was very saddened that I could no longer read the names on the docked ships as they all seem to now be foreign owned foreign built vessels…an irrefutable sign of America’s decline traceable to the ravages of our international “free trade crowd” and the sellout of America’s sovereignty to the highest international bidders.

I believe if Donald Trump continues to defend America’s best interests as he does with promoting a tariff on China’s goods, and also offers real tax reform by proposing to withdraw Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains and other incomes and supports the*** Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment***, he will most likely be embraced by the American People as opposed to our Washington Establishment Candidates like Rubio, Cruz and Paul, each of whom is determined to keep the immoral and arbitrary tax calculated from incomes alive which has proven to be a failed experiment and which our federal government has defiantly used for nefarious purposes, and particularly as a weapon against the American People!

JWK

“Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to America’s future Prosperity“ ___ from “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan”, no longer in print.

But if we tax China’s products, they’ll undoubtedly call in our debt and wind up owning a fair percentage of the country!

1 Like

And the dollar will plumment, and it’ll serve them right…

Exactly! What will they do with the devalued Federal Reserve Notes they get? Buy a few blighted and abandoned inner cities? Good for them! Let them deal with the problem.

JWK

Taxing China will simply inflate the cost of everything that we buy as consumers, Trump is an economic idiot and he has proved that many times over the years but never so clearly as when he advocates mandated inflation upon the American people who are in a recession.

If we want China to have less market share in the US all we have to do is stop punishing our own industries with confiscatory taxation and regulation. Trump lacks the character to make that argument because it would draw the ire of the Enviro-Nazis so he plays the populist “Blame China” card and assumes we are too stupid to think it through.

Capitalism is the solution, China wants industry and encourages industry while we demonize industry and punish industry; why we are losing to China is not a complicated issue.

5 Likes

Contrary to your suggestion, China does not encourage a free market system which begins with people being free to negotiate the value of their own labor. Wages are set by government in China and they amount to slave labor wages. In addition China subsidizes their industries and manipulates its currency. I suggest you do a little research to learn how China breaks the rules of a free market system. SEE China’s Currency Manipulation: A Policy Debate

***China manipulates its currency by pegging the value of the yuan primarily to the US dollar. To maintain that peg in the face of massive trade surpluses with the US, China must recycle hundreds of billions of dollars of that surplus back into the US every year. China does so primarily by buying US bonds—but increasingly by also scooping up US real estate, companies, and other assets.

One obvious result is a US debt to China, now approaching three trillion dollars. This debt has exposed the US to significant political pressure. China’s fixed peg also makes it impossible for the US to ever balance its trade through the normal kind of currency adjustments that are the hallmark of mutually beneficial free and fair trade. Patrick Mulloy, of the US-China Commission, observes: “It’s like having a tariff on goods coming from the United States of forty or fifty percent by the amount that they’re underpricing their currency. It also gives their exports to the United States a subsidy of forty or fifty percent to capture our market and knock out domestic industries that might be competing with them.”***

Trump’s object is to deal with China’s manipulation of its currency, its subsidizing of industries and the importation of products which are produced under slave labor wages and conditions. Remember, “free trade” begins with wage earners being free to negotiate the value of their own labor. In China, each province sets wages as per the general government’s rules.

I see no problem with setting a tariff on imported goods to offset China’s meddling in the market and then letting our market place determine which article is a better value.

Why do you have such a problem with Congress using its powers to promote an America First Policy as our founders did as I described in the OP?

JWK

I never said China embraced a Free Market system, I said that a Free Market system can beat any other system so if we are unable to compete it is NOT because we need mandated inflation on our own citizens it is because WE have rejected the Principles of the Free Market.

What you and Trump are advocating is the retention of the managed Market but trying to “manage” it better than China so we win, there are NO winners in a managed economy.

ALL of which can only hurt China if we embraced the Free Market, let them give us everything back if they want to; that is called a “Price War” and it bankrupts every entity that tries it.

Not one single penny of US debt is the fault of China, not one single penny.

Debt is caused by those like Trump and yourself who reject the Free Market in favor of artificial protections that generate ever increasing government spending and ever decreasing economic viability at home.

Abandon your embrace of confiscatory taxation, crony protectionism and junk science regulation and we will once again stomp every other Nation in productivity while generating surpluses of tax revenue with much lower rates than today. Keep trying to create Utopia by having government manage the economy and take our property Rights away in exchange for promised “protection” and China will beat us in every way forever.

So why do you support more crony protectionism?
No person claiming to be concerned over debt will ever be taken seriously as long as they embrace a centrally planned economy and government protectionism.

There is NO such thing as “Free and Fair” trade, the “Fair” addition is something added by adherents to a managed economy to avoid admitting that they want the Free Market destroyed.

“Free Trade” is NEVER “Fair” if the Nation that Trades Free embraces a Free Market, the Nation that trades Freely ALWAYS beats the Nation that restricts and restrains Trade; their citizens suffer while the Free Trade adherents prosper.

Big surprise, a supporter of a centrally planned economy is crying about how a Communist government is better at crony protectionism than we are; we deserve to have our butts kicked for embracing these failed concepts to begin with.

Trump is economic idiot, it does not matter what his “object” is; his means of getting there will do nothing but further cripple the American people and preserve everything that prevents us from prospering.

Who cares what China does?
Our problems are the result of our own embrace of government as a god and the rejection of Individual Liberty and personal accountability.

You can count on Trump to protect you if you want but don’t wait for me on that bus, I want my economic Liberty and Property Rights back; I fear no competition from Statists.

Of course you don’t, mandating inflation upon our own people is just another form of tax increase and tax increases are always favored by those who want the government to manage the economy.

But I want no such thing.

Why do you have a problem with demanding that Congress stop embracing a “Crush America First” policy of constant tax increases and regulating away the Free Market and all of our other Rights?

Why do you reject our Founders vision of Individual Liberty, limited government and personal accountability?

Why do you think the government can manage an economy better than the individual citizens interacting with one another within the context of a Free Market?

No Nation ever taxed itself into prosperity and no people who ever sought government protection from competition instead of excellence ever amounted to anything worthwhile.

2 Likes

As we’ve seen in the past, raising taxes doesn’t reduce the debt, it simply gives the politicians another excuse to spend more. Any politician who proposes programs designed to raise revenue, rather than cut spending, either is dishonest or doesn’t know what they’re doing. That includes those who do it under the guise of tax reform.

If China wants to sell products cheap then let them, it raises our standard of living. If you want to help American industry, then stream line the regulations they have to deal with and lower their taxes so they can compete.

4 Likes

I haven’t! But you apparently reject our Founding Fathers use of its power to regulate commerce with foreign nations and its power to lay taxes at our water’s edge in a manner which is beneficial to America’s best interests, an example of which I posted at the top of the tread.

JWK

I’m having a problem connecting what you wrote above to the subject of the thread. Are you suggesting Congress no longer raise a federal revenue?

Congress was granted power to lay and collect taxes at our water’s edge to pay debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States. In using that power our Founders encourage America’s ship building industry as described in the OP. Do you have a problem with our Founders using its power as it did?

JWK


To support Jeb Bush is to support our Global Governance crowd and their WTO, NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA, all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or any nation.


Quite true. The automobile industry is a good example. For decades GM, Ford and Chrysler built automobiles with “planned obsolescence” because it “encouraged” people to buy more cars and trucks as their old ones “wore out” at around 100K miles. The Japanese and German automakers rejected that philosophy and built cars that LASTED well beyond 100K and, as a result, took control of a large percentage of the market. US automakers were slow to respond plus government mandates for such stupidity as “smog control” devices and 5 mph bumpers made foreign-made cars even more attractive to consumers. Not only that but cars like Honda and VW KEPT a great deal of their value–considerably more so than US-made cars did.

3 Likes

That is one of the most absurd comments you have ever posted. Should a moral nation not be concerned if the government of another nation engages in immoral conduct such as forbidding its people to exercise the inalienable rights of mankind? How about a nation exporting products into another country? Should the government of the country receiving such products not care that such products may be a hazard to its population? When a wife goes to the market to purchase goods which will enter her home does she not make a number of choices and decisions before allowing such products to enter her home and does so for the general welfare of her family? Do you not see a similar function which a government must perform for the general welfare of the nation with respect to foreign trade?

I will never concede the point that governments do not have a legitimate function to perform for the general welfare of the country with respect to foreign trade, just as a wife has when engaging in trade at her local supermarket.

JWK

You are mixing apples and oranges. Our federal government’s internal regulations, almost all of which are an attack on a free market system are vastly different from Congress using is delegated powers with respect to foreign commerce which is the subject of debate.

JWK

Just because Congress has the power to do something doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Raising tariffs to protect U.S. corporate interests isn’t necessarily a good idea. If the Congress wants U.S. companies to compete on a more even playing field they should look at the unnecessary regulations and tax structure they’ve burdened them with. With our technology we could compete with China if we weren’t dealing with so much red tape.

The bottom line is, the lower the cost of consumer goods, the higher the standard of living people have and the greater the number of people who can climb out of poverty. The Government has more than enough revenue to operate if they weren’t spending money foolishly or to buy votes. China is being stupid by under pricing their goods, so let them. That’s not where our problems lie.

2 Likes

I never suggested it was always a good idea. I gave a specific example which I agreed with. Do you not think a strong and versatile manufacturing base is essential to America’s best interests?

JWK

A strong and versatile manufacturing base won’t result from high tariffs on China. If the U.S. wants more manufacturing, then stop making it difficult for U.S. companies to compete. Do things that will make industry more productive here rather than punish others for being productive.

5 Likes

Brazil tried doing this with its budding computer industry, throwing large tariffs onto foreign made machines, while transferring complete ownership of companies within Brazil either to the Government or Brazilian citizens.

The result was a complete flop, Brazilian technology fell dramatically behind, and their other industries suffered for not having access to modern information technology, but instead, having to use the poorly built, poor spec tech being produced by domestic companies.

1 Like

You don’t develop vibrant businesses by creating an environment where they can be lazy, you do it by letting them deal with the realities of the marketplace, which will keep them lean and mean.

1 Like

My question was, do you not think a strong and versatile manufacturing base is essential to America’s best interests? In addition, you did not comment on the example I posted in which our forefathers used its power over commerce and taxation to encourage ship building on American soil.

JWK

Of a course strong and versatile manufacturing base is essential to America’s best interests; that’s a given. The issue is whether tariffs on China will accomplish that, it will not. I’m sure the government at the time did what it thought best in using whatever means they had at their disposal to encourage ship building on American soil. Whether or not it was the right thing to do at the time, and for the situation, is hard to know for sure. If I recall, England, and most countries of the period, were not above trade manipulation themselves. But at the time, doctors also thought bleeding was a good idea, we’ve learned better since.