Economics professor fails entire test -- FB share


#1

Don’t know if a professor really did this, but I found this story on FB:

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama’s socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan”… All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A… (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you’ll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

  1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
  1. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
  1. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
  1. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
  1. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

#2

Snopes says it’s a legend: snopes.com: Socialism Grade Averaging


#3

Plus that mindset only works if those people are the type that do not work for a common good. Personally I’d always do my best.


#4

[quote=“BullsOnParade, post:3, topic:38347”]
Plus that mindset only works if those people are the type that do not work for a common good. Personally I’d always do my best.
[/quote]I’m sure that everyone does just exactly that. That’s why group projects in school were so much fun.

[quote=“Cactus_Jack, post:2, topic:38347”]
Snopes says it’s a legend: snopes.com: Socialism Grade Averaging
[/quote]I figured, hence the “if true” bit and making sure you all knew where it came from. It would be an excellent experiment. It should be done.


#5

Good for you! But are you sure you would carry through if that type of scenario were the case? And it isn’t the “common good” to give to those who are too lazy too earn it.

Of course, up to a point, that scenario is the case, and is becoming more and more so. And the more it becomes so, the more people will get discouraged and give up trying. It’s not just about hard-working people being robbed to support the lazy; it is also about punishing them just for being hard workers. It’s just not yet as obvious as in the scenario described. And you will always have a few who will try to do their best for their own self-satisfaction, or for conscience’ sake or both.


#6

I would do my best because it’s the right thing to do.


#7

[quote=“BullsOnParade, post:6, topic:38347”]
I would do my best because it’s the right thing to do.
[/quote]Why is it the right thing to do? It’s the right thing to do to win an A for your lazy classmates? Is it really? You consider yourself responsible for their grades? I find it offensive that lazy project partners I have had might think I was responsible for providing them an A. The reason I worked hard in group projects was for my A not the lazy twits who don’t show up.

Doing your best is the right thing only because of what it does for you not for what it does for a lazy classmate.


#8

If there are people who are only capable of earning a B and my earning an A brings their grade up to A then I believe it’s the right thing to do. If everyone does the best they can then that’s what matters. If I don’t work my hardest and get a B and then they less intelligent get a B then I have hurt the class. If they don’t work for the B then they have hurt the class.

There’s no legitimate reason to not do your best. I have no problem working for the common good. If I am able to carry an extra 10 pounds and you are struggling because you’re carrying 10 pounds over your capability then it’s only common sense that I carry it. Otherwise you get hurt and can’t carry anything and then I am left with only the things on my back as opposed to what we share.

People need to stop thinking about what they can get out of something personally and start thinking about the big picture. The common good.

A perfect example is the hacker attacks. If a hacker attempts to do denial of service by himself then he will fail no doubt. But when they all combine (like anonymous) then they are able to take down the biggest systems.


#9

Nope. You’re cheating yourself as well as the other hard workers for the benefit of someone too lazy to do their own work. We’re not talking about the less intelligent who simply cannot make the grade; we’re talking about the lazy who would rather ride on someone else’s back. You’re not doing them any favor, either.


#10

[quote=“BullsOnParade, post:8, topic:38347”]
If there are people who are only capable of earning a B and my earning an A brings their grade up to A then I believe it’s the right thing to do. If everyone does the best they can then that’s what matters. If I don’t work my hardest and get a B and then they less intelligent get a B then I have hurt the class. If they don’t work for the B then they have hurt the class.

There’s no legitimate reason to not do your best. I have no problem working for the common good. If I am able to carry an extra 10 pounds and you are struggling because you’re carrying 10 pounds over your capability then it’s only common sense that I carry it. Otherwise you get hurt and can’t carry anything and then I am left with only the things on my back as opposed to what we share.

People need to stop thinking about what they can get out of something personally and start thinking about the big picture. The common good.

A perfect example is the hacker attacks. If a hacker attempts to do denial of service by himself then he will fail no doubt. But when they all combine (like anonymous) then they are able to take down the biggest systems.
[/quote]If a grade is a measure of mastery, then what good is it for me to get an A based on your work while I am an incompetent in the subject matter? I submit that such a scenario is harmful not helpful. The incompetent moves along and misses the foundation for more advanced work and will never reasonably hope to learn anything more – presuming that’s what he wants in the first place, never mind just being lazy.

Carrying 10 pounds for a weaker guy to achieve some objective is apples and oranges. Education is intensely individual. Carrying 10 pounds for your classmate will likely get him nowhere because he fails to understand what he needed to learn – not that there aren’t ways to carry 10 pounds that are constructive. Tutoring comes to mind.


#11

Hmm perhaps education is a bad example then. Because as you stated, one needs to learn information in order to progress with studies.

Maybe there’s a better scenario we can decide on and discuss? I propose a small island. My way vs your way


#12

I have a better suggestion. A small island: you do what you are capable of and the other guy does what he is capable of. I’m sure there are some things that he can do better than you can. You would both be ahead if you do well what you can do well, and he does well what he can do well. But if you try to do what he does much better than you (thus prohibiting your doing what you can do well), and vice versa, you’re being inefficient at the very least, and possibly detrimental to your survival.


#13

Interesting Susanna. So Marx’s motto was essentially take from those based on ability and provide based on need. I suppose I could argue that the lazy one’s don’t NEED a good grade.

But honestly I’ll submit that education is an awful scenario for communism/communalism vs “capitalism”. There’s no real way to justify it if there’s lazy people. Although I wager I could find a way to delineate the lazy from those without ability in a different scenario. Would you like to discuss a different scenario?

Keep in mind that my defense of communalism doesn’t mean I think it’s actually viable currently. Human civilization is far off from being able to accomplish it in my opinion.


#14

But that’s communalism, we are working together to produce and we share what’s produced. But the problem here is that with only two people then communalism is extremely easy to do.

Lol you kind of made my argument for me there. We need more people that way there is a hypothetical market that can compete with communalism.


#15

BullsOnParade

If there are people who are only capable of earning a B and my earning an A brings their grade up to A then I believe it’s the right thing to do. If everyone does the best they can then that’s what matters. If I don’t work my hardest and get a B and then they less intelligent get a B then I have hurt the class. If they don’t work for the B then they have hurt the class.

Nope, that is not what matters. I do not want a technician working on my TV, that did not work their hardest. I don’t want him working on my TV, no matter how hard he tried. I only want his excellence. If he cannot be excellent by himself, he has no business messin’ with my stuff.

There’s no legitimate reason to not do your best. I have no problem working for the common good. If I am able to carry an extra 10 pounds and you are struggling because you’re carrying 10 pounds over your capability then it’s only common sense that I carry it. Otherwise you get hurt and can’t carry anything and then I am left with only the things on my back as opposed to what we share.
But, what if, in a crisis, he cannot pull his weight? Someone else must risk injury, to cover his slack. This is a real problem, if you really think fudging someone else’s performance is “common sense”.

People need to stop thinking about what they can get out of something personally and start thinking about the big picture. The common good.

Spoken like a true communist.

A perfect example is the hacker attacks. If a hacker attempts to do denial of service by himself then he will fail no doubt. But when they all combine (like anonymous) then they are able to take down the biggest systems.
:confused::noclue:I guess, if you say so. I don’t understand how being a sub standard hacker being carried by excellent hackers, rates him anything but dead weight.


#16

But it will never work because human nature is imperfect. There will always be the greedy and the lazy. There will always be the miser and the hoarder. There will also be the helpless and incapable. Those last two, without counting young children who are, of course, necessarily dependent, are an extreme minority. And those would be easy for the rest of us to take care of if it weren’t for the greedy and lazy demanding that we take care of them, too.


#17

I think eventually by having a culture that values hard work for the common good then at some point you could make it so completely taboo to be a miser or hoarder or lazy that hardly anyone would do it. Of course, like I said, this is not currently viable


#18

[quote=“BullsOnParade, post:17, topic:38347”]
I think eventually by having a culture that values hard work for the common good then at some point you could make it so completely taboo to be a miser or hoarder or lazy that hardly anyone would do it. Of course, like I said, this is not currently viable
[/quote]Never has worked. Tried and tried, but fails every time. Communism is unworkable, as Susanna said, because of Human Greed.


#19

[quote=“BullsOnParade, post:11, topic:38347”]
Hmm perhaps education is a bad example then. Because as you stated, one needs to learn information in order to progress with studies.

Maybe there’s a better scenario we can decide on and discuss? I propose a small island. My way vs your way
[/quote]I think it’s a fair example.

[quote=“BullsOnParade, post:13, topic:38347”]
Keep in mind that my defense of communalism doesn’t mean I think it’s actually viable currently. Human civilization is far off from being able to accomplish it in my opinion.
[/quote]Marx thought so too, that’s why he believed capitalism would morph into socialism all in the name of “equality,” with workers creating an authoritarian state that would eventually badger people into forgetting about their self-interest. It’s still that way. It’s the way humans are. Fortunately, that leads us to trade, a cooperative, comm(al)unistic effort that improves the lives of everyone when the law keeps thieves and frauds out of the equation. It improves lives. It deprives poverty. Socialism is a stake through the heart of prosperity and fertilizer for widespread poverty. Even the best example of socialist success, Sweden, a place where P.J. O’Rourke says “adequate” is a compliment, has been economically liberalizing for two to three decades because it must in order to survive.

I recommend visiting this site, BoP, if you haven’t seen it before: Bleeding Heart Libertarians

You might also take a peak at this (just a facet of the overall discussion): Cato Unbound » Blog Archive » Corporations versus the Market; or, Whip Conflation Now


#20

I remember once in college there was a project we had to do which was to promote a product of our choice. One of our group members was from Argentina and we decided on selling this pan that was used there. Well the fellow decided he was not forthcoming with information on this product which was a fry pan which had ridges in the pan and was shallow.

I explained to this fellow that I worked for grades of A and he should endeavor to help his classmates rather than expect others to do the work.

Funny thing that pan is common now here