Federal Court & U.S. Supreme Court Ruling: Atheism is Religion


#1

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

Atheists consistently attempt to take the higher ground by insisting Christians are mental midgets for believing in a non-existent “sky gawd.” They insist that the Judeo-Christian Bible is a book of fairytales. At one website where I have debated, the Bible was routinely referred to by atheists as the “BuyBull.” Not only that, in most of my conversations with atheists at various websites, their usual accusation is that because of the belief in God, theists have committed all sorts of human rights violations in the name of “cultish religions.” According to the many atheists I have debated at other websites, it is the belief in God that has caused people to commit the various atrocities common to mankind. Remove religion, belief in God, and belief in the Bible–the atheists argue–and the world will be a better place. This latter conclusion is mortally flawed for the following reasons:

Atheists have committed human rights violations en masse throughout history. For instance, Joseph Stalin–the atheist–ordered the deaths of between 40 million to 62 million people (20 million of whom were everyday Soviet civilians), compared to the 9 million or so killed by Adolph Hitler, the Roman Catholic who merely claimed he was a Christian.

In reality, the problem is not the Bible or God. The problem is people, including those in false religions that have failed to teach the masses Biblical truths. An appreciation for Biblical truths and Jehovah’s righteous standards of what’s right and what’s wrong is the only detriment against people committing human rights violations. Blaming God for the crimes of false Christians and other false religions is an attempt at passing the buck.

“See! This only I have found, that the true God made mankind upright, but they themselves have sought out many plans.”(Ecclesiastes 7:29)

DISCUSSION POINTS:
1.
Considering that atheists have themselves committed human rights violations under the banner of non-bellief in a supernatural God or gods, why can one argue that “belief in god” is not the actual reason behind crimes against humanity?

2. Atheism is a religion according to a 2005 Wisconsin Federal Court ruling on the matter of Kaufman v. McCaughtry, as well as the Torcaso v. Watkins case that was affirmed by the 1961 U.S. Supreme Court–the highest court in the land–where court rulings become national law. However, atheists routinely argue they do not belong to a religion because, according to them, non-belief in God is proof positive that they are not religious. Do you agree with the atheists’ position? Why so or why not?

3. Based upon numerous court rulings that atheism is religion, it is obvious that belief in a supernatural God or gods is not a requirement for being considered part of a religion. What arguments can you present along this line?


#2

Why is this in the science forum?


#3

Maylar, for some reason the quote function isn’t working for me (on your post, at least); but I suppose it’s the same reason she goes to all kinds of unrelated sites to “earn” her salvation. It was mentioned that she has been posting this same exact stuff on several muscle building sites . . .


#4

ALTER2EGO -to- MAYLAR:
I put it where members of the Religion of Atheism can see it. No doubt the moderators will move it to the right forum when they are ready.


#5

What is your purpose of this thread? Is it debate the Supreme Court cases, or is it to debate religion which we already already had a long drawn out debate about?


#6

A2E, I would like to ask you a couple of questions. I do not mean to adventure away from the discussion.

  1. Do you believe Jesus is God?
  2. Do you believe Jesus is holy?

Yes or no answers would be excellent.


#7

Atheism is the LACK of religion! In the Merriam-Webster dictionary atheism is listed as an antonym to religion. Do you know what that means??? It means that they are opposites. Do you know what opposite means?!? it means they are very very very very very very very different… nice try though…


#8

Agreed. Atheism is a belief, and increasingly a political cause, but it is not a religion. Religion is a means of approaching the mystery of spirituality. Unless I am mistaken, atheists deny the existence of spirituality. If I am wrong about that, and they have constructed the artifice of religion around their view of the nature of spirituality, then I suppose they could be called the members of a religion.


#9

Atheism has no holy book, no scriptures, no dogma, no churches, no rituals, no holy places and no clergy.

It is nothing like a religion.

What the supreme court held, is that atheism has equal rights with religion under the first amendment.


#10

[quote=“Cactus_Jack, post:9, topic:39741”]
Atheism has no holy book, no scriptures, no dogma, no churches, no rituals, no holy places and no clergy.

It is nothing like a religion.

What the supreme court held, is that atheism has equal rights with religion under the first amendment.
[/quote]But yet there are some which includes you that treats atheism as a religion and goes out to attack other faiths


#11

Nonsense. I have stated repeatedly that atheism is not a religion. I level criticism at religion where I feel it is warranted. If that upsets the theists, then so be it.


#12

That’s interesting; my Webster’s Third New International Dictionary (Merriam-Webster unabridged) doesn’t list any antonyms for religion; not sure it does for any other words, either…


#13

Merriam-Webster online: Religion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Related to RELIGION

Synonymscredo, creed, cult, faith, persuasion

Antonyms atheism, godlessness

Related Wordschurch, communion, denomination, sect; doctrine, dogma, theology; deism, heathenism, monotheism, paganism, pantheism, polytheism, theism

Near Antonymsagnosticism, know-nothingism; atheism, godlessness, nonbelief, secularism, unbelief

Main Entry:
religion  [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: belief in divinity; system of beliefs
Synonyms: church, communion, creed, cult, denomination, devotion, doctrine, higher power, morality, myth, mythology, observance, orthodoxy, pietism, piety, prayer, preference, religiosity, rites, ritual, sacrifice, sanctification, sect, spiritual-mindedness, spirituality, standards, superstition, theology, veneration
**Antonyms: agnosticism, atheism, disbelief **

Religion Synonyms, Religion Antonyms | Thesaurus.com


#14

`
“Atheism Is a Religion: Or at least it requires a God for you not to believe in.”__Kennedy

Who is Kennedy? Well Kennedy is a she, and she writes articles, and she has one article over at reason.com with that title up there ↑
(not my post title, rather her quote is her title)

I thought her point in her title was very funny because, from our Christian perspective, atheists are forever doomed to be talking about the God they do not believe exists.

From our Christian perspective its as if the Sovereign God played a joke on movement atheism in that atheists are going to have to keep on talking about God as long as they keep on talking about their atheism whether they like it or not. They MUST!! They must forever keep on talking about the God they do not believe exists!!

The fact that they are LOCKED INTO THAT and cannot ever get away from making constant reference to the name of God, strikes many Christian minds as very funny …or perhaps very sad.


Anyway Kennedy went on the Bill Maher show and had this experience:

I didn’t know what fire and brimstone was until I made a throwaway claim recently during an appearance on Real Time with Bill Maher.

It seemed pretty unaudacious at the time, but by dropping the simple sentence “Atheism is a religion,” I opened a biblical floodgate of ridicule, name-calling, and abuse …

I was called names and insulted in ways I haven’t heard since the first Clinton administration, when leading scientists still believed the Internet was created by Al Gore in only seven days.

Although I’ve missed the barbs, I was surprised at the bitterness that poured from so many disbelievers. And I remain convinced that atheism is, in fact, a religion.
`

It seems Kennedy fell among some real religious-atheists-religious-fundamentalist-religious-fanatics. Some of these atheists are very emotional and they get in red-faced hissy fit religious tantrum mode when they hear somebody say, “Atheism is a religion.”

Or as Kennedy put it in her next two quotes down there:

When atheists rail against theists (as many did on my Facebook page), they are using the same fervor the religious use when making their claims against a secular society.

(Btw, I do not think Kennedy is very religious, and she certainly does not come across as a Christian. I think she is just a regular secularist that writes for reason.com and went on a TV show and had one of Atheism’s leading spokeman treat her like she was dirt.)

Kennedy continues:

Here you have the atheistic religion in a nutshell: superhuman agency, devotion, self-selecting groups of people.

Add to that the intense—even religious—zeal with which many atheists defend their claims. Let me tell you: The angriest ones can be as malicious as a coven of Westboro Baptists at a veteran’s funeral.

Bill Maher himself took five minutes at the end of the next week’s show to rant against anyone who would call atheism a religion.

He added that you were a moron if you believed this (given what he’s called other ladies he disagrees with, I’m thinking I got off pretty easy).

[COLOR="#000000"][Jack note: If you want to hear ↑ the filthy name-calling used by one of of Atheism’s leading spokeman, Bill Maher, when he talks about a female he dislikes, you can google “Bill Maher name calling Sarah Palin” ]

[/COLOR]

For a group of ultra-rationalists, the atheists sound downright emotional.__Kennedy

Kennedy concludes:

No matter what I said to counter their statements or clarify my thoughts, by and large they refused to give me a fitting definition of religion. Nobody on my Facebook thread could tell me why it was so problematic and offensive to categorize a system of thought adhered to by a group of people about the nonexistence of a supernatural entity as a religion.

[SIZE=4]I have yet to hear a cogent response to this question: Why is it a problem if someone considers atheism a religion?

How does that hurt the atheists’ claim? It’s not saying you can’t believe God does not exist. Knock yourself out! Some of my idols are atheists—false idols, mind you, but certainly shapers of my outlook and worldview. I do thank God for the godless.

[/SIZE]

Btw, “Kennedy is host of 98.7 FM’s Music in the Morning in Los Angeles.”

Link to all quotes up there:

Atheism Is a Religion - Reason.com

The article at the link was written Mar. 10, 2012


#15

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Atheists talk, think, and behave enough-like religionists talk, think, and behave to say that atheism is a religion.

And the American culture is beginning to recogonize that fact in spite of atheist’s denials.

Talk is cheap and “perception is everything” (as far as the public is concerned) and when what atheists actually say, and how they say it, and how atheists actually behave in public (see that post up there about the public behavior of one of Atheism’s leading spokesmen, Bill Maher, Post 14) all cries out “religion …religion …religion” then atheists, for all practical purposes, are perceived as just another RELIGION, and that perception begins to stick in the minds of the American public …

** … moreover my position is this: if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, then so far as I am concerned it is a duck … and running off to a dictionary is not going to get rid of the hard cold facts that are becoming obvious to the American culture at large: Atheism is a religion! … because it talks, thinks, and behaves like a religion … and does that enough to be correctly thought of as a religion! **

“Professors of philosophy and religion, Jeffrey Robbins and Christopher Rodkey, take issue with “the evangelical nature of the new atheism,which assumes that it has a Good News to share, at all cost, for the ultimate future of humanity by the conversion of as many people as possible.” They find similarities between the new atheism and evangelical Christianity** and conclude that the all-consuming nature of both “encourages endless conflict without progress” between both extremities.[62]”

“Sociologist William Stahl notes “What is striking about the current debate is the frequency with which the New Atheists are portrayed as mirror images of religious fundamentalists.” He discusses where both have “structural and epistemological parallels” and argues that “both the New Atheism and fundamentalism are attempts to recreate authority in the face of crises of meaning in late modernity.”[63]”

Both quotes located in the section titled: New Atheism
Criticism of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


#16

`

Contemporary Atheism has been fueled largely by authors promoting their Atheistic beliefs. In the preface to The God Delusion, Dawkins says,

“If this book works as I intend, religious readers who open it will be atheists when they put it down.”

Dawkins is saying he hopes that his book converts “religious” people to his worldview – exactly what a missionary of any religion hopes to do.

Atheism: A religion
Located in section titled: Social


#17

`

Leading anti-creationist philosopher admits that evolution is a religion:

‘Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint—and Mr [sic] Gish is but one of many to make it—the literalists are absolutely right. Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.… 'Evolution therefore came into being as a kind of secular ideology, an explicit substitute for Christianity.’

Michael Ruse was professor of philosophy and zoology at the University of Guelph, Canada (recently moved to Florida.

Michael Ruse: Evolution is a religion

** Who is Michael Ruse? **

"Michael Ruse, FRSC (born 21 June 1940 in Birmingham, England) is a philosopher of science who specializes in the philosophy of biology and is well known for his work on the relationship between science and religion, the creation-evolution controversy and the demarcation problem in science. Ruse currently teaches at Florida State University. He was born in England, took his undergraduate degree at the University of Bristol (1962), his master’s degree at McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario (1964), and Ph.D. at the University of Bristol (1970). …He considers himself both an atheist and agnostic, but believes that “new atheism” is a disservice to science and loathes the term “Humanist.”[1]

Michael Ruse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PS
Public perception is everything here and dictionaries reflect how people use words and thats 100% of all they reflect. Dictionary editers do not define words. They do not get up one morning and decide what THEY want a certain word to mean. The American public decides that for them, and the Dictionary editors merely list as definitions the popular usage of those words, eg. the word religion, and more and more people are beginning to use the English word “religion” to describe atheism and for the reasons already noted
up-thread.

But not even the American public has the power to over-ride “the duck” … lol … The Duck rules as Supreme King!!

… if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, then so far as I am concerned it is a duck … and running off to a dictionary is not going to get rid of the hard cold facts that are becoming obvious to the American culture at large: Atheism is a religion! … because it talks, thinks, and behaves like a religion … and does that enough to be correctly thought of as a religion!..


#18

This seems pretty obvious to me.


#19

One thing that really really strikes me about atheists . . . their anger and hostility toward religion, so much so that it always looks like they just bit into a lemon.

I remember seeing a Bill O’Reilly show about a year ago, where O’Reilly had a prominent atheist on (can’t remember the name.)

While I forgot the name, and also a lot of the details of that interview, the one thing I DO remember is that this atheist guy WAS VERY ANGRY AND HOSTILE. O’Reilly, OTOH, was calm and reasonable . . . IIRC he even conceded some points.

But this atheist guy was downright nasty, condescending, and generally gave the impression that he was miserable. In fact, when O’Reilly gave his usual, “You can have the last word”, the atheist guy went into a rant worthy of, and even full of more vinegar, than any fanatic religious fundamentalist would have done. Actually, he made fanatic religious fundamentalists look like pansies in comparison.

Personally, I’m inclined to give more credibility to those who state their positions more rationally, calmly, and reasonably. Many atheists don’t enhance their positions very well by ranting hysterically. Forensic debate seems like it’s NOT a strong point for atheists. Plus, they always seem to be searching for that “gotcha” moment . . . which frequently backfires on them anyway.

If I have to work through all the atheists crappola to see what their point is, and the other side lays out their points clearly and without rancor, I’ll take the guy who lays out his points clearly . . . any day, and twice on Sundays.

That’s just common sense . . . a characteristic that many atheists seem to lack. It’s like they’re so focused on “science” that they forget to apply common sense.

I’m not necessarily saying that common sense dictates a religious view, but c’mon guys . . . learn how to convey your message CLEARLY to your audience!


#20

[QUOTE=Dawkins (from Jack H’s quote)]“If this book works as I intend, religious readers who open it will be atheists when they put it down.”[/QUOTE]
There goes another failed perpetual motion machine…