For those who don’t like Trump’s tariff policies …


It’s kind of funny, RET mentions nothing of what the deal contains.

Because if he did, he’d be forced to admit that economists got this right.

I didn’t say Trump couldn’t force the countries to deal, I said he couldn’t do it without protections & kickbacks and… oh yeah, horse trading.

Guess what we got?


I thought you would be in Hong Kong by now, or was it New Zealand?

One of those recognized powerhouses that is the envy of the whole world. :joy:


Every single thing in that paragraph is false or intended for the purpose of deception.


Again I ask: The Heritage Foundation is the one who tracks economic freedom.

Are you going to assert that they can’t be trusted?


Japan’s example shows otherwise. We would be them if not for our reserve status.


So I suppose you already have your plane ticket, boy will we all be sorry that we stayed behind in this “post Obama” country with our new President that just “doesn’t get it” unlike all of the people who do your thinking for you :rofl:

I am investing based on an epic strong domestic economy based entirely on what Trump is doing, so it makes sense that those who are certain that Trump is wrong would be packing for greener pastures.

But I think we both know that you are not going anywhere, because you know as well as I that your “Utopian economies” are nothing of the sort.

But I do enjoy the “doubling down”, I already know what the numbers will continue to be so this is fun for me.


Hey RET… why are you avoiding what I said?

Why in fact does all of this…

Say nothing of what’s in the Deal?

What’s in the deal RET?

If it’s so good, why aren’t you talking about it?


It is amazing how these “fundamentalist conservaives” can ignore the lessons of history and economics.

“Go back to the Gold Standard!” Okay, how are you going to do that when there is not enough gold in the world to back a gold based currency unless the dollars per ounce standard is set at a ridiculously high level.

“Let every private entity that wants to issue money issue it!” This flies in the face of the what happened prior to the Civil War when every state charted bank could issue its own money. The result was hard times and economic chaos. “Those who learn nothing from history are condemned to repeat the mistakes of the past.”

I’m all with you when it comes to controlling government spending and the deficit. I differ with you when you advocate policies from the past that have failed repeatedly.


Personally I’d prefer platinum, but I don’t see your rationale. So what if you get a fraction of an ounce per dollar?

I’m not seeing the con to that. oz is an arbitrary standard, there’s no reason for us to stick to it as the smallest denominational unit. Neither economics nor science is harmed by that.

This is what crypto currency is, and it’s working.

So… what the hell Send?

Did you miss the part where I told you crypto currency has limits to how many you can print off?

Hence why ONE bitcoin is worth $6,000 right now?

Which applies to you; fiat currencies have been clearly bad, and clearly used to bank roll terrible fiscal practices. It’s destroyed our savings rate, and made us spendthrifts in credit.

It’d be better if we had a common use currency that was backed by something, and which you couldn’t print more off of flippantly. And if that does happen, you have an easy, accessible alternative, which switching to will punish the bad currency for its misbehavior.

Economics is a ground up system Send; to include its currency; you don’t get a better result by having central planners messing with the levers, nor by limiting choice.


Seems to me like one Bitcoin about two months ago was worth over $15K.


Here is my rebuttal to those who push crypto currencies.

You folks can but them all you want. Have at it!

What I object to is when YOU FORCE ME TO USE THEM. I don’t want to have to worry about what crypto currency will be used to pay my interest and dividends. No even you zealots say that they are all the same. Figuring out which stocks and bonds is hard enough without having to figure which crypto currency I want or find how I can force those who pay me which currency I get.

In the 19th and early 20th centuries, people demanded that contracts were to be paid in gold. Why? Because one could not trust the value of the currency issued by banks. I am not a currency trader and have no reason to or desire become one.


Consumer preference will force you to use them all on their own, just like they forced you to get a modern phone & computer. It’s the way life rolls. Convenience & function argues for itself.

Mortgages made owning a house more complicated. It also expanded what you could do with the equity in your house.

Send, you won’t sound even handed, until you admit there’s reason for these things to develop. More function, and more options, have reason to exist.

And crypto like Etherium is more like Gold, than a bank-issued currency backed by nothing.

Send, you can’t preach to me what the technology is good for, or what its usefully compared to when you haven’t looked at it, nor paid any attention to how it works or what it does.

You don’t use bank notes to navigate satellites, or to run logistic chains, or to audit & execute contracts. Something in your comparison doesn’t add up here.


So you determined to stuff the crypto currencies down my throat. Those are the tactics of a Liberal Democrat.


Markets will do that, not laws or votes. I think you understand what that means, so half-baked accusations don’t fly.

Further, I’m still waiting for you to acknowledge

  1. Crypto currencies cannot be printed Ad infinitum ( unless designed to be) and
  2. They have functional purposes

… both making them categorically different than 19th century bank notes.

Crypto still has issues, I’ll admit that all day long, but if you keep making mechanical comparisons, then you’re not pointing out what they are. You’re just feeding me rhetoric.


This is my final post to you concerning this because debating you on this subject is useless.

  1. I have repeatedly pointed out to the history of free market currencies that are issued by private concerns with little or no regulation. It failed miserably in the United States in the first half of the 19th century. This I have learned from my extensive studies of history and economics. You will not debate these issues. All you have done is tell me that everything I know is wrong. You have disrespected me, despite my extensive studies (B.S. in accounting, MBA in finance), extensive readings and experience. I am a published author in the areas of numismatics and pollical collectables. I am not one of the minions who has no idea how the financial system works.
  2. You say that computers will make your system work. Computers are nothing more than machines that take data and process it. Their results are no better than the data that goes into them. To make your system work flawlessly, the date must be accurate and up to date. Until you can guarantee that, your system has series flaws.
  3. In your world, everyone will have to use crypto currencies. Government currency will no longer be issued. I have no desire to live under that system, yet you insist upon forcing it on me. That is the approach of the totalitarian mind set.

You can put all of your monetary assets into crypto currencies. That is your right. I opt for the government currency backed by the legal system. That is my right. I am perfectly willing to let you do what you want. You do not extent that same courtesy to me. That is the approach of a statist. That’s why I’m done with this discussion.

Who is going to stop these private concerns from creating money “Ad infinitum?” Will it be some world government? Will be the market based upon the data supplied by the company that issues the currency? Will be the market based upon the “audited results” of the company that is issuing the currency? As an ex accountant, I can tell you that auditors can play a lot of games when they get their money from the firm they are auditing. I have had practical experience with that.

No, you play with your crypto currencies on the Internet. I hope that you become a billionaire. I simply ask that you leave my finances alone.


LOL, so currency that was created digitally cannot be “printed Ad infinitum?”

But it was created digitally. It’s the very definition of currency that can be created Ad infinitum, because that’s how it was created.


According to economists who reviewed the data.

Why are you taking offense to this? This is economists, doing their job, calling the NBER estimates wrong. They aren’t talking about you, nor am I trying to insult your intelligence for believing them, only imploring that you check on this.

You are not the NBER, you are not the same as their estimates of past recessions. NBER isn’t God, it isn’t dogma, they should be questioned if we care about the issue.

We’re talking about algorithims that self-execute, and self-check.

Maintaining a ledger, across millions of computers, that have to line up for a transaction (and new coins) to be considered valid.

The algorithm itself.

With each bitcoin minted, the algorithm becomes more complicated, and you need more computing power to mint the next one.

That’s why minting bitcoins takes the computing power of entire server farms today, firing off for weeks, whereas in 2013 you could reliably make one with a single laptop in a few days.

The last bitcoins to be minted, by their estimated computational load, won’t be made until well into the 2070s.

On top of this, is the 21 million hard cap. It’s built into the algorithm, no escaping it Send.

To have more crypto, you’d have to use a different coin, or a fork of bitcoin, like Bitcoin Cash or Bitcoin Diamond.

Blockchain is a technology that removes the middlemen. Removes moral hazard, removes human error. There’s no need to put more back in.

Again Send, blockchain tech is already used, to audit contracts. It’s purposed-built for this.


And if the builders get… creative? Put themselves in a backdoor to the vault, so to speak? Nothing human mind can conceive is incorruptible.


The source code is all open and thoroughly studied so “backdoor” unlikely. However there is absolutely no guarantee that the cryptographic hash function on which the system depends will not be broken, tomorrow, in 10 years, whenever; by the NSA, Chinese, Israelis or some clever teenager in mom’s basement.


The Economic Freedom Index clashes with the Heavy Mexican Woman Index.
The choice to remain was predictable.