Germany bans three 'anti-democratic' Islamist groups


#1

Authorities in Germany have banned three Islamist groups, accusing them of being “anti-democratic” and seeking to impose sharia law.
DawaFFM, Islamische Audios and An-Nussrah all adhere to ultra-conservative Salafist doctrine.
Police mounted raids against the groups on Wednesday, but no arrests were made.
German officials have said videos produced by DawaFFM partly inspired the man who shot dead two US airmen at Frankfurt airport in 2011.
An-Nussrah was judged to be part of the Millatu Ibrahim organisation, which had been banned in June last year.

BBC News - Germany bans three ‘anti-democratic’ Islamist groups

It is interesting to note that some places are seeing the problem with capitulating with Muslims which work to undermind governments and try to impose their laws and culture on others.

I have seen countries tell Muslims they are not allowed to wear certain clothing and other things that Muslims want done.

Hijab by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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#2

I am not a racist, as being Muslim is not confined to one race. I am however wholeheartedly a bigot.

In my heart I believe in good and evil. You can see the evil in Islam just as easily as you can see it in the KKK.
I liken Islam to that of a cult. It dominates one’s life to the point of extremes. Pedophilia, honor killings, mutilation, the subjugation of women, and on and on are the trademarks of Islam. Do not try and tell me “it’s not all of them!” All of Germany were not SS agents but turned a blind eye to evil.

In my home town there are two gas stations that are owned by non-Muslims out of eight stations. Those are where I get gas. I will not let a Muslim in my home, do business with them in any way, and openly speak out against Islam. Some say I’m not tolerant.
To which I answer…gee, ya think???

I am not afraid to take a stand on what I believe to be right and wrong. It’s really just that simple. EVERY SINGLE DAY many in the world are murdered in the name of Allah. If people were killed daily in the name of Jesus you would see global outrage. As you should.
**Islam is a religion of hate. **

And the faster we condemn it the better off we’ll all be. Not every terrorist is a Muslim, but the vast majority are!

Jihad Watch


#3

Any group that wants to impose a legal system that is descriminatory, archaic, and violent as sharia, Muslim or not, is not a pro-democracy group. I’m surprised the liberal Germans were the ones to do this first. But kudos to them for keeping their political system of equality and justice from becoming legitimate rape and anti-semitism (again haha had to go there).


#4

Wow Moby… Well atleast you yourself acknowledge that you’re a bigot(I’d probably add ignorant in there too). You may say you’re not a racist, but you may as well be. Your attitude is no different than those people that denied blacks their civil rights.

Have you ever really known any Muslim people, or is your whole view of them based on what you’ve seen on tv? One of my best friends is a Muslim, my ex-girlfriend is a Muslim, and I’ve grown up with Muslims. You know what I’ve learned from all this? They’re no different from you and me. Well actually the ones I’ve known are completely different from you, cause they wouldn’t hate an entire group of people or religion based on the actions of a few.

Some of the nicest people I’ve ever met in my life are Muslim.
Some of the people I’ve had the best time partying with are Muslim.
Some of the smartest people I’ve ever met are Muslim.
Some of the best players I’ve ever played hockey with are Muslim.
Some of the biggest pot heads I’ve ever known are Muslim.
Some of the people I’ve met that are the most disgusted with the Terrorism going on over there are Muslim.
Basically some of the best people I’ve ever met are Muslim.

At the end of the day though, you’re probably right, instead pf actually accepting someone as an individual, they should be judged as evil based on the actions of a few people that are also Muslim. I guess I should start viewing all Christians based on the actions of groups like the Westboro Bapstist Church and the priests who sexually abuse children.


#5

[quote=“Choobear, post:4, topic:38663”]
Wow Moby… Well atleast you yourself acknowledge that you’re a bigot(I’d probably add ignorant in there too). You may say you’re not a racist, but you may as well be. Your attitude is no different than those people that denied blacks their civil rights.

Have you ever really known any Muslim people, or is your whole view of them based on what you’ve seen on tv? One of my best friends is a Muslim, my ex-girlfriend is a Muslim, and I’ve grown up with Muslims. You know what I’ve learned from all this? They’re no different from you and me. Well actually the ones I’ve known are completely different from you, cause they wouldn’t hate an entire group of people or religion based on the actions of a few.

Some of the nicest people I’ve ever met in my life are Muslim.
Some of the people I’ve had the best time partying with are Muslim.
Some of the smartest people I’ve ever met are Muslim.
Some of the best players I’ve ever played hockey with are Muslim.
Some of the biggest pot heads I’ve ever known are Muslim.
Some of the people I’ve met that are the most disgusted with the Terrorism going on over there are Muslim.
Basically some of the best people I’ve ever met are Muslim.

At the end of the day though, you’re probably right, instead pf actually accepting someone as an individual, they should be judged as evil based on the actions of a few people that are also Muslim. I guess I should start viewing all Christians based on the actions of groups like the Westboro Bapstist Church and the priests who sexually abuse children.
[/quote]Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute or are you trolling


#6

Muslims are not a homogenous group. Most that are in the US do not want to live under Sharia law.

IF the German government has ID’ed these groups as a real threat to their country, that is their call.


#7

How is Moby’s post more of a worthwile contribution than mine? I don’t understand how you could consider it trolling. Moby stated his view on Muslims, I stated mine. He thinks they’re a hate cult, I replied that my dealings with them have been the opposite.

I guess I should have posted something related to the OP, but as Moby’s really had nothing to do with it either, I didn’t feel it was neccesary to do so.

Anyways, in regards to the OP, Germany has done the right thing here. Extremist groups of any religion should be banned if they advocate violence on those who disagree with their views and wish to overthrow the established form of law in order to implement an archaic form of religious law.


#8

Speaking of trolling. Nice job.


#9

I’m kinda between Choo & Moby on this one. I too have known a number of Muslims and ALL of them simply wanted to live their lives here in freedom and make a good life for them and their families. One gave me space on his business server N/C for years for my website…and never asked a thing in return. Another helped me to the hospital with an injury even though he didn’t know me well.

My conclusion is that most USA muslims…and probably most muslims everywhere are similar to the rest of us.

My problem is that the wacko fringe in most religions that is dangerous to others…is a very small % and can simply be laughed off…like Westboro.
Islam however seems to have a “fringe” that consists of 100’s of millions of violent idiots…led by violent idiots from the stone age. Not many here…not many in the West overall… or even in the far east. Largely concentrated in the ME…but with a hatred of us and the West that can do 9/11 type damage.

So what is a prudent person to do?? I think that here…one can treat Muslims one person at a time as with anyone else…while resisting any group actions as we’ve seen from CAIR and in Lansing & Minneapolis which would impose or carve out law or PUBLIC education a la sharia. Overseas…I think the attitude simply has to be one of vigilance, strength and RETRIBUTION against those who work against us. We make a grave error when we treat these religious terrorists as simple criminals. We make a grave error when we treat their leaders as potential allies and hand out $$ in the hope of buying friends.


#10

I only disagree with your claim of small percentage as it pertains to Muslims outside of the US. The “Fringe”, as you refer to it and have blanketly applied to many others at RO, is in control of most Muslim countries. MOre than a small number are complicit. However, most of the Muslims in the US are trying to get away from Sharia Law.


#11

[quote=“Cam, post:8, topic:38663”]
Speaking of trolling. Nice job.
[/quote]The democrat speaks again.


#12

:yeahthat:


#13

I cannot speak about all muslims, but I certainly am afraid of them. The muslims who were born in the U.S. and have lived here for a number of generations are not the ones I fear. It is the ones who are tryiing to force their lifestyle and mores on the world, not just the U.S. They want to kill all those who are not muslim. They believe that the world must become muslim. They are not tolerant, they are not open to others of different faiths, they are not open to just about anything outside of their muslim beliefs. It is no coincidence that since mohammed walked the earth his followers have been at war with the rest of the world. It is no accident that Christian warriors had to be sent to protect the Holy Land from being overrun with muslims and the Holy places in Jerusalem desecrated by them. My brother-in-law is from England and he said he will never return to England because of the turks who have overtaken the country. I have muslim friends, too. But they are Americanized and respect the laws of our country.

I applaud Germany for taking this stand. Perhaps it is because of her nazi past that Germany will never allow a hateful group to overtake the country again. Maybe that is the only way that we will learn that lesson, too.


#14

[quote=“Moby, post:2, topic:38663”]
Do not try and tell me “it’s not all of them!” All of Germany were not SS agents but turned a blind eye to evil.
[/quote]First, a few preliminary remarks, and then I’ll get to your comment above.

Your honesty is commendable . . . perhaps it might be phrased “brutal honesty”, but nevertheless honesty.

I agree mostly with CAM’s comments, and while I respect your honesty, I disagree with you significantly (I’ll get to that in a bit.)

OK . . . your comment I quoted above.

Comparing Muslims to Germans in WWII is, at best, severely inaccurate, and at worst just flat out apples and oranges. For one thing, Germans had an entirely different motivation to remain silent: FEAR. That certainly doesn’t justify their behavior, but it DOES make your analogy very flawed. There are many other substantial differences that make the comparison invalid.

However, I wouldn’t disagree that the more moderate Muslims ARE curiously low volume about condemning their more radical brethren. While I can only speculate, and none of my speculation justifies the behavior, maybe:

  1. They have been taught not to criticize their brethren, no matter how radical the brethren may be, and hence are straining against childhood teachings.

  2. The version of the Q’uran they follow has a prohibition on criticizing their radical brethren. I have no idea how many different versions of the Q’uran there are, but I’m guessing that it’s similar to our Bible in that regard . . . a lot of different versions.

  3. They are settled comfortably in the U.S., have adopted the culture, are prosperous, and have no wish or desire to rock their own boat with what they see as distracting activism.

  4. They see radical fundamentalist Islamics in the ME just the same as some here in the U.S. do . . . they see them as a vocal minority that are not representative of Islam . . . indeed, they view them as the lunatic fringe whose only reinforcement is publicity. Hence they want to remain low profile.

As I said, this is all speculation AND IT DOES NOT EXCUSE THE BEHAVIOR. I have absolutely no idea how they look on their own situation or that of the radicals in the ME. And I’m sure others can come up with more speculation to add to the list, and probably argue credibly against some of mine.

As they breed and as the “old traditions” become more and more distant, and eventually forgotten, future generations will become completely Americanized, and it will not be unusual to hear, “Did you know my great grandmother on my father’s side was a Muslim?”. “No . . . WOW!!”

OK . . . my disagreement is based on my own personal experience. My experience is very similar to CAM’s. Some of our neighbors here are Muslims, and some of the women do not wear that traditional veil over their hair, so my wife and I were surprised when they told us they were a Muslim couple. If they had not said something, we never would have known.

Our experience with them has been pleasant.

I am severely handicapped, and there is a Muslim neighbor who comes over regularly and performs routine maintenance that I can’t do. Like he’ll get up on an 8’ ladder and change the HVAC filters up in our cathedral ceilings for me, do the same and change the batteries in my smoke alarms once a year, check the tire pressure and fluids in the car for me, and more. The guy will come over at least once a week, knock on the door, and say, “Just checkin’ on you to see if there’s anything you need done.”

There’s another Muslim couple that we break bread with once a week.

So my experiences with these folks are very favorable. I have no idea if they’re representative of Muslims nation wide, but here in my small corner of the universe I have no cause to be alarmed by them.


#15

First of all, it’s bogus to compare attitudes toward a CHOSEN RELIGION with attitudes toward an UNCHOSEN RACE. Second, compare the percentage of radicals in Islam with the percentage of the WBC types, pedophile priests, etc. among professing Christians. Third, without a LOT more substantial basis than what you’ve quoted, lose the use of the bigot label.


#16

Let’s leave off the personal stuff folks, before this thread gets messy.

Don’t like what Moby posted? Respond to the content of his post or ignore it. Don’t like Choobear’s response to the content of what Moby posted? Respond to the content of Choobear’s post or ignore it. See what you believe to be a violation of RO’s rules? Report it.


#17

…and the troller trolls again.


#18

Muslims Unleash Holy Hell in Bangladesh: Slaughtering Hindu Children, Torching 47 Hindu Temples and 700 Hindu Homes | sharia unveiled

Muslims Unleash Holy Hell in Bangladesh: Slaughtering Hindu Children, Torching 47 Hindu Temples and 700 Hindu Homes

I have my opinions and don’t care what others think. Islam is evil, even if all of it’s followers aren’t. The religion itself is evil.


#19

All of the blue and the links are my response.

My eyes have been opened.


#20

First of all, please don’t misunderstand my disagreement with your opinion as anything remotely resembling a condemnation of your opinion or otherwise belittling it. Some of the elements are indeed based on your experience, and I certainly cannot declare that invalid. My disagreements are primarily with the conclusions you have drawn from things.

My tone is not abrasive. I merely want to point out why I have made the conclusions that I have.

[quote=“Moby, post:19, topic:38663”]
Respectfully I disagree sir. MANY Muslims state fear of reprisal as the reason they do not stand up. Like many Christians did when the KKK was much larger, or the Catholics did during the Spanish inquisition. So I think my analogy is fair sir. All that is needed for evil to win is for good men to do nothing. It is not an option to stand against evil…it is a necessity!!
[/quote]Well put, but we disagree on the “MANY Muslims”. On that basis, I think the analogy is flawed.

[quote=“Moby, post:19, topic:38663”]
As are the children of Muslim’s in Madras around the world. Hate is taught far more than Hitler’s youth groups.
[/quote]That may be true for Muslim’s in the ME, where Madras’s are controlled heavily by the fundamentalist mullahs, but I don’t think it’s true for the majority of Muslim children here in the U.S. Sure, there are some Madras’s, I would think, here in the U.S. that preach hate for the “infidels”, but my sense is that they are in the minority.

However, I have not conducted an exhaustive survey myself, nor have I scrutinized any surveys by others on the topic (if they even exist.) “Scrutiny” of any third party survey would be necessary before one drew a conclusion. Consequently, my “sense” is founded on speculation only.

[quote=“Moby, post:19, topic:38663”]
ALL versions of the Quran teach the killing of non-Muslims, lying to achieve the goal of total domination, and other ugly positions. And please don’t throw out the old testament, Christ came to straighten all that out because as Christians in the old testament we got it terribly wrong. Hence the coming of Christ. The bottom line, if you’re a devout Muslim, domination and lack of tolerance for ANY other religion is your Islamic duty.
[/quote]Since I have not read “ALL” versions of the Quran, I cannot dispute your statement that “ALL versions of the Quran teach the killing of non-Muslims”. Not being sarcastic, simply stating why I cannot dispute the claim, in good faith.

I’m a little confused. Did you think that I was going to argue that the Bible (in the old testament books) encourages “murder”? My own views on the old testament are that the books were written for a very small portion of human kind (Jewish tribes in the Middle East . . . though some of the moral principles are universal) and in a time when those tribes were either in conflict with other tribes or persecuted themselves. So there was a lot of military and political turmoil in the area. It was in THAT context that “murder” was discussed, not a universal teaching that “murder” was OK. So, no, I wasn’t going to claim that the Bible advocates murder (a tactic that most atheists try to use.)

[quote=“Moby, post:19, topic:38663”]
I look at Detroit and Chicago and disagree sir. I look again at the masses of Muslims dancing in the streets after 9/11 and disagree
[/quote]Again, I haven’t taken any exhaustive surveys myself to see if those Muslims you refer to in Detroit and Chicago are of the extreme variety or not, nor have I scrutinized any third party surveys on the topic, so I can’t dispute the claim. If you are saying ALL Muslims ARE extreme, then we just disagree (Geeee, there’s something new . . . two posters on RO disagreeing ~sarcasm~)

[quote=“Moby, post:19, topic:38663”]
I see the problem much larger than a FEW radicals.
[/quote]Your pictures are either from the MSM, Fox, or a network similar to Al Jazeera, a newspaper, or the Internet. All are skewed, and drawing conclusions from press coverage perpetuates the exaggerations the press uses to “sell” these clips.

In the case of the MSM, it’s just flat out a ratings thing. Would there be any ratings value to pictures of peaceful Muslims going about their daily ho-hum routines?

Fox? Same as above.

Newsprint? Same as above.

Internet? Could be same as above, OR below, depending on the site.

Al-Jazeera and brethren? They PURPOSELY skew their coverage to show their audience (extreme fundamentalist Muslims) that their cause is represented by “huge” numbers in the streets.

I’m not saying we can’t use some media outlets as sources for information, it just has to be run through your own personal lens. Your filter and my filter are different (big surprise there that two people would have different conclusions ~another sarcasm~).

[quote=“Moby, post:19, topic:38663”]
I understand sir, I will not judge you nor anyone else with an opinion. I’m merely stating mine and stand by it with the evidence I see with my own eyes.
[/quote]Same here, except I wouldn’t characterize my opinion as having the certainty of “evidence”.

[quote=“Moby, post:19, topic:38663”]
If we live that long. England, France, and many other countries have not had assimilation work out very well. I do not see it happening here either.
[/quote]As far as I know, the Muslim communities in other countries are confined to economically poor slums ONLY. While there are some Muslim slums here in the U.S., there are also upscale Muslim communities where opportunity thrives and assimilation is common. That’s the big difference. The U.S. is “the land of opportunity”, England and France are NOT.

[quote=“Moby, post:19, topic:569”]
Pre-9/11 I had two VERY dear friends Elli and Vaheed. I would have trusted my children with these people. Both from Iran, both devout Muslims, both my very close friends. We BBQ’d weekly, drank together, and back then (I was a younger man) twisted up joints often (Vaheed and I Elli never would) Both prayed 5 times a day on prayer rugs facing Mecca. I asked many questions about Islam and we spoke often of the similarities of our religions. 9/11 occurred and I learned very quickly how they REALLY felt. I’ve never looked at a Muslim the same again. When we had words about their feelings post 9/11 Vaheed looked me in the eye and said "you Americans are so stupid…
[/quote]Here is where our experiences are different. If my only experience with Muslims had been like yours, I may have drawn the same conclusion, though I doubt I would have viewed those particular Muslims as representative of all Muslims.

Nevertheless, in the wake of the 9/11 outrage, I can understand your feelings. I wasn’t too fond of ANY Muslim for a while after that and my afterburn probably would have been extended if a Muslim had said to me, “you Americans are so stupid”. (I might even have taken a swing at the guy.)