Godfather Alert!


#61

I think Wuthering Heights did by glamorizing Heathcliff as the male love interest. I thought and still think he needed his posterior kicked to the moon.


#62

[quote=“Fantasy_Chaser, post:61, topic:45343”]
I think Wuthering Heights did by glamorizing Heathcliff as the male love interest. I thought and still think he needed his posterior kicked to the moon.
[/quote] but the same can be said for (or, in this case, against) Catherine and Hindley who both treated Heathcliff exceedingly ill. And made him obsessed with revenge.

And that, I thought, was the “moral” of Wuthering Heights. Unkindness breeds revenge, revenge breeds reciprocal revenge, and the cycle goes on and on. Thankfully, in Wuthering Heights, after many years of various members of two neighboring families inflicting as much misery as humanly possible on one another, the third generation–Catherine the second and Hareton–fall in love and break the cycle. Romeo and Juliet with a happy ending for once. At least for them. Happiness eluded their parents, who are restless unto and even after death.

Some of the same motifs recur in The Godfather. A ruthless Sicilian mob boss murders all members of a small family but one. That child, the only survivor, expecting nothing from the world but calculation and manipulation, and determined to out-calculate and out-manipulate everybody, grows up to be the head of a crime family in his adopted America. Vito wants his son Michael to make the transition to legitimacy but when Vito is shot by a rival, Michael feels he must fight fire with fire and gets swept into the cycle himself. Kay sees what is happening and has an abortion in a desperate attempt to “break the cycle” which she thinks is in the Sicilian genes. What she does is wrong and makes things worse. Whereas in Wuthering Heights, the cycle finally gets broken, in The Godfather it never does.


#63

I always like McQueen too. I read an article about him, he had a terrible illness and his stomach swelled up terribly,
but I have forgotten the details.

I remember reading that Steve became a Christian before he died. Sure hope he did.

But, you are correct. I don’t know why people cheer for the “bad guys”. Maybe it’s because there is a hidden (maybe not so hidden) desire in us to do bad things or to live life on the edge–if only we could. And so, we experience an “excitement” in seeing people like “Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid” and other movies where the bad guys get away. And, I also think that it is part of the liberal culture that has taken over America over the last decades.

I think there is a lot of truth in those statements.

:diamonds:


#64

Americans generally only cheer for the “bad guy” when he’s portrayed as the underdog. Otherwise, not so much.
Take an old Western t.v. show, for instance. When the “bad guy” is presented as the snarly, mean, no-do-gooder, he ain’t no underdog. Just a mean rot, and we cheer for the good guys.
Conversely, when the “bad guy” is presented as someone who was just down on his luck that day, but is actually good deep down inside, we all hope he gets the chance to redeem himself, and come out shining in the end.

(But maybe if I’d watched The Godfather, it might sound like I know what I’m talking about.)

The Soprano’s? That, I did attempt to watch a few times. It was so full of utterly silly, shallow tripe that I couldn’t take it.
(But I’m pretty sure I do know why Limbaugh liked it so much.)


#65

it is with deep sorrow that I have to report that I cannot find The Godfather on the tv schedule this weekend! AMC did its “spend Thanksgiving with the Godfather” thing for years; I assumed that tradition would continue. Gosh, is nothing sacred any more?!


#66

It is playing right now on HBO.


#67

[quote=“ClassicalTeacher, post:66, topic:45343”]
It is playing right now on HBO.
[/quote] Bummer! I don’t get HBO.

I suppose, since I do like GFs I and II, I should break down and just buy the DVDs…


#68

my final Godfather comment (sighs of relief heard across the land): over the years, I’ve noticed that some of the strongest Godfather critics… could out-Godfather the Godfather any day of the week! (not referring to the very good discussion that’s taken place here, but rather to people I’ve known over the years.)


#69

No knock to those who find The Godfather great entertainment.
Just sayin’ I took great pleasure in watching Gone With the Wind, and Little Women to my heart’s content.


#70

I’m exceedingly fond of all three! watched gwtw again this week, and watch Little Women whenever I get the chance.

Little Women most of the characters are just plain good, and that is very refreshing. GWTW more complicated. Scarlett vain and manipulative–but pretty good in a crisis and a lot of grit. Rhett is a gun runner with few loyalties, a womanizer (until he falls for Scarlett)–but he is a great father, and he reveres true goodness and recognizes it when he sees it–whether in Melanie (not hard for anyone to see the goodness in Melanie)–or in the prostitute who risks her own life to nurse men during a contagious outbreak.


#71

Never cared for Gone with the Wind although I know many consider it one of the greatest movies ever made. And, I couldn’t get past June Allyson in Little Women. Just way to sugary sweet for me. But, I do love old movies. My favorite oldies are anything with James Cagney, Bogie, William Holden, and others. Although I thought Marlon Brandon was an excellent actor, he was a disaster in real life. He lived his life as excessively as he could in every aspect. Al Pacino, imo, is not the great actor that many people see him. I think his greatest acting role was in GF and Serpico. But, his later work is all mediocre, and the older he gets the more he looks like Alice Cooper. I saw Scent of a Woman for the first time about a year ago and to be honest, I don’t know what everyone is so worked up about that movie. I thought it was dull and uninspiring. Did he win an Academy Award for THAT?? Oh well… Give me 12 Angry Men or Stalag 17 any day.


#72

I never saw the movie, but they’ve been running an audio dramatization on Focus on the Family Radio Theatre. IF our regional Christian radio network hasn’t messed things up too badly for the holiday weekend, the conclusion should be on tonight.


#73

[quote=“ClassicalTeacher, post:71, topic:45343”]
Never cared for Gone with the Wind although I know many consider it one of the greatest movies ever made. And, I couldn’t get past June Allyson in Little Women. Just way to sugary sweet for me. But, I do love old movies. My favorite oldies are anything with James Cagney, Bogie, William Holden, and others. Although I thought Marlon Brandon was an excellent actor, he was a disaster in real life. He lived his life as excessively as he could in every aspect. Al Pacino, imo, is not the great actor that many people see him. I think his greatest acting role was in GF and Serpico. But, his later work is all mediocre, and the older he gets the more he looks like Alice Cooper. I saw Scent of a Woman for the first time about a year ago and to be honest, I don’t know what everyone is so worked up about that movie. I thought it was dull and uninspiring. Did he win an Academy Award for THAT?? Oh well… Give me 12 Angry Men or Stalag 17 any day.
[/quote] a few of my favorite oldies: On the Waterfront, Sweet Smell of Success, All About Eve, High Noon, Casablanca, The African Queen, Anatomy of a Murder, Days of Wine and Roses, The Apartment, Our Town, North by Northwest, The Man Who Knew Too Much. All the Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals. Porgy and Bess. Newer ones: Lord of the Rings Trilogy, The Passion, Braveheart, Young Frankenstein, Live Free or Die Hard, The Shooter, the man with no name trilogy, West Side Story, Gran Torino, Four Brothers, Pride and Prejudice, Road to Perdition, Christmas Story, Magnificent Seven, Les Miserables, Night at the Museum, Legally Blonde, Devil’s Advocate, Ghost, To Kill a Mockingbird, True Lies. Eclectic to put it mildly.

Remember my mom telling me about when GWTW came out in '39. When it came to our little town, it was A Major Social Event. “Everyone who was anyone” attended the opening. Everyone dressed to the nines! It was written up in the newspaper. There were many house parties before and after. A really, really big deal. Even my dad, not a movie guy (except for “Mr. Roberts”) felt that it was mandatory for him and Mom to be there.


#74

Yeah, my mom told me the same thing about GWTW and insisted it was the greatest movie ever made. Just never saw what was so special about it. Vivian Leigh was much better in A Streetcar Named Desire. Now THAT was a great movie. I’m not much of a horror/spooky movie type, although I thought The Silence of the Lambs was excellent. I don’t care much for musicals–the only one I ever really liked was The Wizard of Oz. I despise romantic comedies and wouldn’t be caught dead watching one. Some of my favorite movies besides GF, are: The Pianist, Schindler’s List, Marty, The Flight of the Phoenix (the old version), 12 Angry Men, anything with Steve McQueen, movies about historical events, drama, and suspense. I don’t like movies about zombies or ghosts. My sister raved about a British movie called Shaun of the Dead and I thought it was one of the most stupid movies I ever tried to watch–and I generally LOVE British films. Oh, and speaking of which, I love anything with Tom Courtenay, but especially Billy Liar, and The Lonliness of the Long Distance Runner. I don’t care for Tom Cruise, but I thought he was exceptional in Valkyrie.


#75

[quote=“ClassicalTeacher, post:74, topic:45343”]
Yeah, my mom told me the same thing about GWTW and insisted it was the greatest movie ever made. Just never saw what was so special about it. Vivian Leigh was much better in A Streetcar Named Desire. Now THAT was a great movie. I’m not much of a horror/spooky movie type, although I thought The Silence of the Lambs was excellent. I don’t care much for musicals–the only one I ever really liked was The Wizard of Oz. I despise romantic comedies and wouldn’t be caught dead watching one. Some of my favorite movies besides GF, are: The Pianist, Schindler’s List, Marty, The Flight of the Phoenix (the old version), 12 Angry Men, anything with Steve McQueen, movies about historical events, drama, and suspense. I don’t like movies about zombies or ghosts. My sister raved about a British movie called Shaun of the Dead and I thought it was one of the most stupid movies I ever tried to watch–and I generally LOVE British films. Oh, and speaking of which, I love anything with Tom Courtenay, but especially Billy Liar, and The Lonliness of the Long Distance Runner. I don’t care for Tom Cruise, but I thought he was exceptional in Valkyrie.
[/quote] how cool is that, that our moms had the same memories of the impact of GWTW! Your favorite movie list and mine don’t have much overlap though–if any-- but I am taking yours under advisement.

there was a period in the forties and early fifties that some terrific b & w movies were made. some, but not all, were put in the “film noir” category because they were a little dark. Sweet Smell of Success, The Apartment, and All About Eve were all about what price is worth paying for success? I think you would love The African Queen if you missed Katharine Hepburn and Bogey in that one. On the Waterfront and Casablanca were about finally taking a stand (reluctantly) against evil.

The Man Who Knew Too Much and North by Northwest were stylish Hitchcock thrillers. Hitchcock’s were all good (except Psycho is just too scary) but those are my faves. Mel Brooks did a hilarious take-off on Hitchock’s Vertigo called High Anxiety.


#76

The African Queen was the only role I thought Kathrine Hepburn was any good. It was an EXCELLENT movie. My favorite Hitchcock movie was/is Lifeboat with Tallulah Bankhead, John Hodiak, William Bendix, and Walter Slezak. EXCELLENT character study. But, I love anything by Hitchcock. I liked Psycho but preferred some of his other work like you mentioned (NBNW). Never cared much for Mel Brooks brand of humor. Just a little too zany for me. I’m not a huge Bette Davis fan, but I did like All About Eve. Did you ever see The Days of Wine and Roses? I thought it was an excellent movie and it was nice to see Jack Lemmon in a serious role. (Thought the Odd Couple was one of the funniest movies I’ve ever seen.) I never cared much for Robin Williams’ brand of humor (made me very nervous–too kinetic), but I thought he was a much better dramatic actor.


#77

[quote=“ClassicalTeacher, post:76, topic:45343”]
The African Queen was the only role I thought Kathrine Hepburn was any good. It was an EXCELLENT movie. My favorite Hitchcock movie was/is Lifeboat with Tallulah Bankhead, John Hodiak, William Bendix, and Walter Slezak. EXCELLENT character study. But, I love anything by Hitchcock. I liked Psycho but preferred some of his other work like you mentioned (NBNW). Never cared much for Mel Brooks brand of humor. Just a little too zany for me. I’m not a huge Bette Davis fan, but I did like All About Eve. Did you ever see The Days of Wine and Roses? I thought it was an excellent movie and it was nice to see Jack Lemmon in a serious role. (Thought the Odd Couple was one of the funniest movies I’ve ever seen.) I never cared much for Robin Williams’ brand of humor (made me very nervous–too kinetic), but I thought he was a much better dramatic actor.
[/quote] yes have watched Days Wine Roses several times, having alcoholic parent. am also chocoholic myself–not to mention computerholic. remember scene where he is in greenhouse rooting up plants looking for hidden booze? when i run out of chocolate i start frantically rooting thru drawers and pantry, practically ripping out woodwork, muttering "theres GOT to be some chocolate here somewhere!"i also like AAE be cuz i have known a snake just like Eve. many folks consider her a saint. she doesnt fool everyone but she fools many! so i find Eve true to life. did you notice Marilyn Monroe in the bit role btw?


#78

Makes me cry with joy every time. I’ll only watch the one with June Allyson as Jo, and Elizabeth Taylor as Beth.

GWTW more complicated. Scarlett vain and manipulative–but pretty good in a crisis and a lot of grit. Rhett is a gun runner with few loyalties, a womanizer (until he falls for Scarlett)–but he is a great father, and he reveres true goodness and recognizes it when he sees it–whether in Melanie (not hard for anyone to see the goodness in Melanie)–or in the prostitute who risks her own life to nurse men during a contagious outbreak.

I was surprised at how much I’d forgotten about GWTW.
My mother, having read the book, refused to watch the movie, but would espouse that she never could understand how two people in love could misunderstand each other so much.
To me, that was easy: Stubborn pride - on both sides of the aisle.


#79

I’ll throw in that I cannot STAND Kathryn Hepburn; hence the reason I’ll only watch that Little Women version withOUT her in it.
However, as for the rest, I can see that I’m out of my element, as I don’t watch too much t.v., nor go to the movies.

Have something in common w/each of you, CT, and Patricia.
With Patricia: Musicals. Never learned to love them until my Mom explained that the show was written around the song, not the other way around.
TOP fav: Fiddler on a Roof. (Got to see that on Broadway w/none other than Luciano Pavarotti! Again, later, done by a college class. Most excellent, if I do say so, myself.)
The rest of the list? Mary Poppins, Camelot, My Fair Lady, West Side Story (too sleepy to think of the rest)
Also w/ Patricia, most of the “later list” you mention.

With CT: The Pianist, Schindler’s List, Marty, The Flight of the Phoenix (the old version), 12 Angry Men, anything with Steve McQueen…

Add to the list, The Dirty Dozen, and about anything w/Clint Eastwood in it. Throw in Bruce Willis or Morgan Freeman; same thing.

What I find interesting in all this is how we crisscross/cross paths with our likes/dislikes, yet find much in common with one another.
Seems we’d all get along very well at a cocktail party.


#80

[quote=“2cent, post:79, topic:45343”]
I’ll throw in that I cannot STAND Kathryn Hepburn; hence the reason I’ll only watch that Little Women version withOUT her in it.
However, as for the rest, I can see that I’m out of my element, as I don’t watch too much t.v., nor go to the movies.

Have something in common w/each of you, CT, and Patricia.
With Patricia: Musicals. Never learned to love them until my Mom explained that the show was written around the song, not the other way around.
TOP fav: Fiddler on a Roof. (Got to see that on Broadway w/none other than Luciano Pavarotti! Again, later, done by a college class. Most excellent, if I do say so, myself.)
The rest of the list? Mary Poppins, Camelot, My Fair Lady, West Side Story (too sleepy to think of the rest)
Also w/ Patricia, most of the “later list” you mention.

With CT: The Pianist, Schindler’s List, Marty, The Flight of the Phoenix (the old version), 12 Angry Men, anything with Steve McQueen…

Add to the list, The Dirty Dozen, and about anything w/Clint Eastwood in it. Throw in Bruce Willis or Morgan Freeman; same thing.

What I find interesting in all this is how we crisscross/cross paths with our likes/dislikes, yet find much in common with one another.
Seems we’d all get along very well at a cocktail party.
[/quote] agree that Fiddler on the Roof and West Side Story are among the best musicals. I am also a sucker for Sound of Music, watched it umpteen times. Also like (still in the musical category) Porgy and Bess, South Pacific, Oklahoma!, The King and I. I even like Les Mis altho it’s kinda lefty! (smile)

If you like Bruce Willis be sure to see Live Free or Die Hard, which might be the very best of the Die Hard series. And if you like Bruce Willis and Clint Eastwood, you might like Mark Wahlberg…try Four Brothers or The Shooter.