GREAT Resignation Lets talk

The military hasn’t been conscripted in decades; it’s an all volunteer force.

Austrian theory leans minarchist, and they’re perfectly fine with public entities providing short term solutions.

Were not talking about doing something on the order of the Army Corps of engineers permanently taking on dam and dike construction.

Define short term because they’re causing our wage negotiating power to go down.

The same is true of the military clearing debris in Haiti and setting up power stations. Local power businesses collapsed because of it.

Was it still the right thing? At what point does the consequence of market failure necessitate a public reaction? Is it only when people start starving?

Do you think the resigners are trying to negotiate wages or are generally going to live out of their cars forever? Do you personally know any I know 2. They have their reasons to hold out for something better but once is more pinched than the other.

Not really, I think they built up savings, and are waiting for covid to more fully blow over. I don’t think most really have the wage itself in mind.

Equally, part of our worker shortage is due to not letting in a million people each year in immigrants; that was kind of important.

Pretty sure they didn’t mind $12/hr, and that there are alot of jobs Americans just don’t care to look at, no matter what the wage is.

Even pre-covid, when urban counties experienced high unemployment, that didn’t entice people to go work in the sorely labor short rural county next door.

There’s also tons of contract and assembly work that’s been dominated by immigrants for decades.

No one has any idea how to control immigration Bush was close with the worker visa but that also was a bad idea in some ways. Until something fixes Mexico and Mexico protects its borders as well… It really goes back to Narco Trading. We have done what Mexico would not, not allow the manufacture of illicit substances here. One thing I really gotta say is we have a high clearance rate on Meth Labs smell em a mile away.

My wife used to drive 30 miles into a rural county for a job from 2015-2017 and 2019-2020. That being said I’ve seen people who would rather live in their cars or rough camp. This is different than before the need for workers is there the wage will make the difference corporate won’t sign off on it despite some locations doing it only for corporate to tell them no.

Everyone but the farms in Oceana county use E-verify. I’ve seen a person fired and arrested for using someone else’s social-sec.

Must be nice to be able to have that option. Funny when they find out this is the new normal. Alot of Nordic countries say the only way to move forward is to treat it as a common raspatory disease with seasonal variation. We ever solve Aids? Or do we just live along side it avoiding behaviors associated with it.

I’m not even talking about illegal immigration. Rather, the legal sort.

Both forms of Immigration though have been important for meeting our labor needs for decades. Covid squashing both those we issue visas to, and the amount (and type) of those coming was going to have effects.

Again, I think this is missing something. Even in previous economic downturns where people were hurting for work, there were jobs Americans were just avoiding.

Immigrants were the primary laborers, and with them gone, no one wants to do them. It doesn’t matter what the wage is, even high-paying blue collar jobs that pull down $70-90,000 a year or better have sat empty for decades.

Rather, the perception of this work is what is lacking. Chock this up to Americans being more sedentary than ever before (they won’t go to where the jobs are), and the trash talk of blue-collar we’ve been acting out for decades.

Y’know, the stuff Mike Rowe talks about, as he’s seen this for years. And so have I.

Doesn’t matter; I know a huge company I worked for that used e-verify, yet I had three co-workers in my area who were illegals. One from El Slavador who really liked Trump (that’s a thing for some reason among them), and a Mexican who liked our police because they weren’t instantly corruptable the way they are in Mexico.

In short, in large organizations, or small ones desperate enough for the laborers, E-verify won’t catch much.

I think that’s what people are doing, and our real labor shortage is from lack of immigration, certain states giving pretty cushy benefits on top of the Federal ones which didn’t start ending until… like 5 minutes ago, and just bad perception of the work not enticing fresh workers.

Where is our labor participation rate right now, maybe just 1-2% off where it was pre covid?

I think the lack of immigrants alone can explain most of that gap.

Tucker Carlson says Legal Immigration is a Myth. (sorry satire)
Legal Immigration can be worse than illegal in some ways as it waters down paraprofessional wages. I’d love to see HB1 Visa’s for politicians lol. It’s crass but at least illegal immigrants take jobs Americans truly view as beneath them.

None of which were solved by HB1 Visa’s.

Farm Work? I got Latinos in my family and the farm jokes don’t stop.

Everyone wants to ride First class, but those countries from where they come from need them the most I’ve seen doctors leave Nicaragua to be farmers here. You are a minority view in your party on this. I am a minority view in my party on this. You’re love of Von Misses overides the anti-immigrant logic. Is it Austrian economics that’s the core of everything you say? At the core of everything I feel and say is one huge lineage of low paid Welsh/Dutch American workers. As far back as my great grandpa. Cops are for rich folk, pray and be decent, but never let a man insult or rob you, this world is only gonna change slowly, you can tell a man by his enemies, don’t judge the man by the color of his skin or the money in his pockets but rather by what he does. Forgive the person the first few times then its time for an eye for an eye.

Educated jobs are basically the only area you see direct competition between Americans and immigrants.

Just because those labor sectors are far more niche, the skills less applicable to other roles.

At the same time, there are profession were not great at meeting demand for.

Like Lung specialists who know how to treat people for black lung from coal. We have to import those people.

and Manufacturing; tech assembly work has been dominated by certain select Asian demographics for decades. I know, because I went to work in these places. Very few Americans there.

Remittances actually help developing nations a lot.

It’s much better than foriegn aid, it creates an educated cadre of people who can force things in their nation back home to change, and creates an investment dividend that uplifts everyone back home.

This is why Northern Mexico went through a huge housing boom in the mid 2000s, while southern Mexico, which wasn’t quite sending people to the U.S. then, was far less touched.

Nah, it’s perspective. I have copies of my great-great grandfather’s Ellis island sign-in sheet from when he came here from Italy.

He had been an unemployed carpenter who lived in his Uncle’s basement. Neither he nor my Norwegian ancestors would have met our today far more stringent educational and work skill requirements.

I don’t see how those requirements are fair or necessary. Criminal background checks should be good enough.

Neither of those “rube” population stocks made America worse. Really, it was immigrants interested in the American dream who helped us get over the butt hurt of the Civil War. They had no time for those squabbles, there was work to be done.

And that’s at the core of what we see immigrants; they’re more productive and far less interested in culture wars. I’ll gladly spend time with them over the native-born University Grad who tweets for the 1000th time how repressive America is, and how we must defeat “white supremacy” or the “patriarchy”.

The immigrants are not the rot here.

1 “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Corporations have a lot less power than governments, unless they can leverage governments. But then, so do labor unions.
2 I’m fine with this philosophy.
3 Agree, although two things work against it, one particularly in modern times. Entrepreneurship is discouraged by government regulation, and greed has always been with us.
4 Unless they’ve been brainwashed to think that someone who won’t pay them fifteen bucks an hour to flip burgers is an exploitive A-H.

1 I stand corrected as the Feds go, but apparently, some states (including California, where we have a glut of unloaded cargo vessels) have their own extended benefits still in effect.

2 False framing of the argument. I didn’t say (or imply) that. I’m saying that making the public at large dependent upon the government for their livelihood through control of unemployment can dictate terms to its citizenry. Including turning in Jews. Or whites. Or Christians. Or fill in the blank. It’s just one method of control in their toolbox.

1 As I said to Gene, I stand corrected about Fed benefits (although it took them long enough), but if they’re holding out by choice, they aren’t doing it with some kind of support from somewhere.

2 I suspect often times without counting the (historically demonstrated) costs.
3 I stand by my use. Full-blown socialism is the goal, because the goal is control.
4 Two words: Merrick Garland.

5 No, it’s the history of giving government too much control, which is the bloodstained history of socialism/communism.

6 Don’t like it on principle? Don’t work for them. Q.E.D. Start your own company. With less overhead by not paying yourself and other officers of your company exorbitant salaries/benefits/perks, you should be able to blow your competition out of the water. Of course, government regulation is a problem, whether it’s corporations lobbying for laws that tilt the playing field against their competition, or labor unions doing the same against right-to-work laws.

7 It doesn’t take much analytical ability to figure out that building a wall will go a long way toward that goal.

I want you to understand something about me personally really quick ok. I don’t support socialism or communism ok. If I sat here and called your party racist and nazi because of fringe movements like Unite the Right and tried to paint with a broad brush how would that make you feel PERSONALLY. I will take Welfare Queens or Lazy Or Useless Eaters to describe social spending ok, unless there is an actual attempt to seize the means of production or have five year plans please try to refain from parroting back tucker carlson. I know during the Bush years people called you folk Nazi’s and right after Unite the right that was common but you need to drop the socialist sock puppet if you want to be taken seriously by me or anyone to the left.

Wage or income? Those aren’t the same thing. Feel like you’re both talking about the former.

Governments can’t “provide the wage” unless they’re the employer.

Medicare for all and The Green New Deal both call for nationalizing industries.

Bernie has gone on the record endorsing socialist candidates. Certain Democrats at the local level outright say that’s what they are, and that they want to “repropriate” businesses. Just like Hugo Chavez.

It’s all fair if you want to distance yourself from that, insist that isn’t what you’re advocating. To have your actual ideas be considered.

But denying the idea isn’t present and has currency among the left just isn’t true today.


I’ve seen relatively little evidence that the hard left was terribly interested in taking seriously anyone who didn’t agree with them.

We could talk about “socialistic” or “a little socialism,” but socialism doesn’t stay “little” or in the background. It grows like a cancer with much the same results. And after it destroys everything else, it destroys itself.

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The new socialism is really fascism. It calls for alliances between government and corporations. It calls for massive government spending and the take-over of many aspects of citizens’ private lives.

There are undoubtedly elements in the modern socialist movement who want the government to own and run industries, but even they realize that they can’t take over everything all at once. Obama Care was the first step toward “single payer” which would morph into a government run health care system. Obama told his supporters that in his speeches. The same is in the offing for the financial industry.

Beyond that, climate change initiatives will move toward control and, in the plans of some, nationalization of the means of production.

You can’t flip an advanced economy to socialism in one fell swoop. You have to do it gradually. You also have to train future generations to accept or embrace it. This is why the left is so obsessed with child care. You grab ahold of children when they are very young and continue to indoctrinate them though college. If the parents complain, you push them out of the way.

Anyone who says they oppose socialism, but can’t see this happening now, is delusional.

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Bro. You forgot to take your medication. And I agree with you they should just raise the minimum wage to 1 million dollars an hour that way everyone will get rich in one hour and nobody will ever have to work ever again. Genius.

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Imagine if you may actual socialist demagogues in the Soviet Union giving that same speech but with capitalism instead of socialism. If there is a price for everything sell your organs, sell your kids to labor farms, sell drugs, sell unregulated products, Sell Dangerous Things. That’s pure capitalism. No one here understands mixed economy.

I don’t take corporate pusher crap or street crap my friend.

You’re not being sincere, yet I am I think that speaks volumes about both of us.
What about raising the wage to a point that causes 90% retention over a year?
It’s expensive for them to hire and hire and hire. My wife has been through 4 jobs in 3 years.
There’s always a better offer. Funny thing I took care of two drug addict cousin didn’t ask a dime from them one died the other turned on me when I suggested they become self sustainable by august called my wife’s employer threatened to make a scene my wife was fired. Talk about cancel culture. Funny thing on unemployment she got a 25 dollar a week cut, doesn’t waste that money on gas, and gets to stay home until something opens up. I’m a huge fan of Aldous Huxley he explained that drugs let you believe the lie, they pacified you, they dumbed you down, they took natural anger and self preservation and turned it into a man looking for a fix.

That depends on the business. You don’t know offhand if it’s better for them to focus on retention, or allow for drop off.

UPS makes that bet. They have a system that disvantedges younger workers by paying them less, so they have more to pay their long-term members who they lean on to be the hyper-productive backbone.

Fed Ex makes the opposite bet, they pay new hires more upfront, but pay workers less in the long term than UPS.

Both strategies are valid. And so are those marginal businesses, the Mom & Pop shops you spoke about, who can’t afford to pay higher wages as their marginal costs are too high.

Low-paying jobs are entry points into work skills and industries. They have a reason to exist. You can’t excise and pretend you haven’t harmed something.

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Yep, under capitalism, you kill babies and harvest the organs … Of wait, it’s some on the left who do that.

Your extreme characterizations of “pure capitalism” do nothing to make your point.