How should an ideal America look like?


I recently recognized that even within the conservative wing ideas regarding an ideal America diverge. For me, important requirements to accept a society would be:

  • that its economic system is capitalistic,
  • its citizen have highest possibility to make own decisions,
  • people do not think in ideological patterns and are critical,
    and have a pro western mentality and a positive relation to money and wealth,
  • individuals are seen as self-responsible for there own actions and not as victims of society,…
  • it protects its environment
  • secure borders

The list is not complete. In general the ideal country should enable EVERY citizen to experience the American way (reach middle class / upper middle class) if he or she making an effort.

What I do not support are (among other things) restrictions that reduce individuals freedom to make own decisions, a generalised anti-materialistic attitude and expensive military interventions.

How should an ideal America look like? And how should it not?


In ADDITION to your comments:

We RETURN to the capitalist model of free and open markets. This means the govt becomes the judge of results, not of the process. This would mean there would be no companies to large to fail.

We restore the Constitution as our basis and all laws that pertain to race, color, religion, sex etc go away. NO ONE nor does any group, race, creed etc have special rights over another (which is what we have now). “We the people…”, the laws apply equally to all and NO ONE is above the law, yes that would put Hillary and Obama in jail.


It would also put Bush, and Reagan in jail, if he were alive.


What “crimes” do you think either is guilty of that would put them in jail, AS?


Bush has used political connections to hide misdeeds of certain allies; Reagan had Iran-Contra.


Iran-Contra was entirely Constitutional. What was UNconstitutional was the Bolen Amendment which pulled support from the Contras in defiance of the President’s word and it’s HE who has sole authority to conduct foreign affairs–NOT Congress. As for President Bush, “Slate” ? Really? I read the entire thing and there was NO “interference” by the Bush administration in ANY of those cases…only a couple of which could be even remotely connected to Bush. BTW, it was CLINTON who gave Haliburton those “no-bid” contracts. Bush merely continued them because the ONLY other company CAPABLE of doing what Haliburton did was a FRENCH firm.


Aren’t these issues totally irrelevant today?


I opened this thread for especially one reason: I think, we all are dissatisfied with current conditions. I don’t know if this is true for you too, but I would like to support change in the right direction. If yes: Have you ever thought about how your country (or the world) should look like, so that it would be more acceptable?

I think if you want change, you previously have to have a more or less concrete idea or imagination about conditions which should come true. And you have to understand which conditions are problematic and should be overcome.

You already mentioned that (1) an extended, lavish government apparatus that wastes tax-money and acts corrupt is one of the problems, that (2) we have to return to the capitalist model of free and open markets and (3) there shouldn’t be any social preferences for the benefit of any minorities.

But is this the complete problem-list of today’s US-American society? If (1) to (3) were solved, would the US be perfect?


So you say, the ideal society, people must conform to the ideal expressed by a certain group? Young friend, the ideal society is the convergence of ideas, ideals and a can do attitude. Socialism comes in when the ideals are total conformity to the group in power.
First to your list, that immediately moves one into the socialist class. There is NO ideal society because culture of one group is different from the culture from another group. I have skills in one area and someone has skills in another. I have select mental ability in one person, that differs from another. I have highly motivated people over here and low motivation over there. There will be rich and there will be poor. EVERY civilization from the onset of God’s creation has had their poor and their rich.
As an Architect for over 50 years, I too have looked at the idealistic living for Americans, as have the great Architects before me. From Fuller, to Wright to other minor Architects, and Neiman in Brazil, yet none have found the idealistic answer. because they all looked to a conformity of life styles, which is impossible to achieve.
Does this help?


Yes, I would say, an ideal society must conform to the ideals expressed by a certain group.

Currently I don’t know if there is ONE ideal society. Maybe the ideal depends on the specific group that creates this society. So dependent on the group there may be different ideal societies for each of this group.

But I think there are universal elements which could be an underlying ideal in every culture. For example the protection of human life would be useful in every society. In general I would say freedom, liberty and individualism are ideal for the most people.

I don’t understand the last sentence. Anyway, my list doesn’t lead to socialism! My fist three points are:

  • economic system is capitalistic,
  • citizen have highest possibility to make own decisions,
  • people do not think in ideological patterns


And yet, you’re arguing that “conformity” is part of your “ideal society.” BS, of course.




Because “conformity” is essentially impossible since no two individuals–not even identical twins–are exactly alike in their beliefs or behavior or abilities or talents.


What the hell are you talking about?? I never said that I am striving for conformity. When did I say that I want a conformist society?


From your own post, phillipp.


And did you read WHICH ideals I mentioned?

(post #1)

If a group of people would be conform regarding this ideals, would the society be conformist?


OK. WHICH group’s “ideals” should we conform to? Just like individuals, groups have different–often polar opposite–“ideals.” Would you prefer Islam’s “ideals”? Or how about the “ideals” of that Baptist Church in Topeka that wants all “fags” dead? Or why not adopt the “ideals” of Black Lives Matter and have black people take over the property of the rich white people?


These are negative examples.

How about the ideal to think critical and be sceptical regarding dogmatism and political ideology? Or the ideal to maximize individuals freedom within the group? Why didn’t you read my first post - I already mentioned these and other principles.


Yes society must conform to the ideology of a certain group, just as we have done in America for most of its life. This is also true in ALL societies across the world, to not do so is nothing but chaos and leads to rule of man over another by force.

Our America society which is the model for the world (was) is fast falling apart as we leave behind at a extreme rapid pace the fundamentals on which we built the greatest nation. The road map was laid out quite well in our founding docs and the central core of Christianity the 10 Commandments. As our Bill of Rights gets torn down and the 10 Commandments are no longer welcome we have spiraled down at a madding pace.

We must have a set of core values and a dogma that we can live by and if you wish another then go somewhere else. Sadly that is not happening, instead we are destroying and killing the goose that laid the golden egg and its highly unlikely we will ever see that golden egg again.


Why can’t these fundamentals be rebuilt?
Why must America fall apart?
What is the best way to achieve a turning point?