I Do Not Recommend You to Support Refugees!


#1

Hi!

I live in West Europe and you might have noticed that the whole continent was flooded with Arabian Immigrants over the last years. Tramways are full of aliens. European cities feel like Arabian suburbs. Criminality and unemployment rates went up. Millions of tax-money are spent for integration projects. Cultural identities of individual countries dissolve. A welcome-refugee mainstream dominates the media and society. Immigrants with right to vote are voting for left parities who call for limitless immigration.

Now it seems that the USA is developing similar problems. Illegals are coming from al parts of the world and take it for granted to obtain right of residence like a duck takes to water. At the same time leftwingers distort the discussion about immigration with devious strategies. They intimidate others if they don’t conform to their ideology. They call people racists who support border control. And they try to impose their left-wing moral standards on the general public.

From an outside perspective I want to tell you: You have a right to defend your country! It is not justified that the left expects you to give up your cultural identity! It is not justified that the left expects you to share national resources, jobs, or tax-money with people from other parts of the world! You, as Americans, are not responsible for solving the problems of other nations. Get your politicians to build that damn wall and close your borders before it’s too late!


#2

The ‘refugee-immigrant’ problem is actually several issues bundled up into one. It suits the Left to keep it that way. But for clear thinking, we should unbundle them, and also be clear about the issues involved.

Here are some thoughts for discussion/criticism.

  1. Would-be immigrant does not equal refugee. The latter term should be restricted to someone fleeing a ‘well-founded fear of persecution’. Every decent person will feel sympathy with such a person, but feelings are the start of policy, not its end.

  2. Other people seeking to enter are would-be immigrants. Again, every decent person will feel some sympathy with a person – if their desire is to have a better life that they also contribute to, i.e. they’re not coming to live off welfare, but intend to work – but our sympathy will naturally be less than it is with the person who is fleeing because they are a Christian, or adherents of some other religion targeted by the zealots of the Religion of Peace, or a principled anti-Communist fleeing a Communist dictatorship, or a true democrat (small-d!) of any kind who is fleeing persecution from an authoritarian/dictatorial government.

  3. That people seek to come to the West – the liberal democracies with free market economies – says more about the superiority of the liberal democratic system than all the writings of all the Marxists, quasi-Marxists, uncultured Marxists, socialist professors, etc in the world. How interesting that the most vehement champions of those seeking to come here, are often the most vehement condemners of the very system people are trying to get to.

  4. Americans have a problem with immigration in this generation that previous generations of Americans did not have: when immigrants arrived in the US, they were under enormous pressure, of many different kinds, to become ‘Americans’, and to be proud of their new country. In some cases they become ‘more American than the Americans’. But now … in schools and colleges, they are taught that America, and the West in general, is guilty of all kinds of crimes: racism and sexism and XYZ-phobia. Colleges refuse to fly the flag, young people burn it with impunity. So … will the new immigrants assimilate, in this atmosphere?

  5. It is often pointed out that new immigrants have a lower crime rate than the indigenous population. This is probably true – the crime rate to study is the crime rate of their children as they grow into adulthood. If these children feel alienated from the country in which they have grown up – if they don’t in some way thrill to the stories of Valley Forge or the 20th Maine’s holding of the Union left flank at Gettysburg – then the males among them are likely to look for manly self-expression in gangs of their own kind. This will be doubly true if there are fewer and fewer low- and middle-skilled jobs due to globalization and AI-driven automation.

  6. No one seems to be looking for solutions that involve creating safe havens abroad, or for (admittedly radical ) solutions that would help encourage assimilation of new immigrants into the US. (For example, new legal immigrants might be required to spend, before applying for full US citizenship, at least five years living in a small town where almost everyone else is an already-establised citizen. The aim would be to prevent the establishment of large, concentrated ghettoes where everyone is a Somali, or everyone is a Muslim.)


#3

So you are defining moral principles? To be DECENT you have to have sympathy with a person that wants to live in your country (as long as he is willing to work)? A decent person can’t take the position: I don’t feel responsible for people in all parts of the world?

You do what the left always does: You victimize those who are behaving wrong.

If immigrants accuse America of being racist, sexist and XYZ-phobic, if immigrants burn the flag – who is to blame? The western society, of course!
You say: If immigrants behave wrong we shouldn’t blame immigrants – we should blame the collage campuses.

I’m so sick of this leftwing patterns.

More and more jobs will be done by machines, so immigrantion will be more and more problematic.


#4

Agreed; there’s something different going on in the mind of someone who comes here out of the necessity of safety vs someone who comes here merely to work.

According to Daniel Hannan, a British MP, America has less Islamic terrorists than Britain despite having a larger population of Muslims, likely because of our patriotism, and because we have stronger pressures that push people into work.

“Idle hands” and all that.

Globalization doesn’t destroy jobs, it merely changes their composition.

Were in a transition right now, where our education system is intended to get people into jobs that mostly don’t exist, and it’s still trying to catch up to the requirements for the jobs that do.

Which shows the massive mistake we made of leaving education in the public system’s hands. It can’t adapt well or quickly enough.

Multiple countries have carved out safe spaces in Syria and Iraq, with mixed success.

The problem though, is that this isn’t living, it’s just surviving. You’re putting people in tent cities and they just… dwell.

“Idle hands” and all that again. If you’re worried about their kids here, they’re not turning out much better there, where this is little to no movement in life.

What about people just looking for residency, or a worker’s permit?


#5

Interesting … what I worry about is the combination of globalization and AI-driven automation. It’s not obvious to me that the new jobs available will be as monetarily and psychologically rewarding as the old ones. Have you read Charles Murray’ Coming Apart?

Yes, I agree that ‘tent cities’ are a terrible idea – better than being beheaded, but … I wonder if we could expel California from the Union, and let them be the new country for everyone who needs one?

Yes, residency and/or work-permits would be, in theory, an alternative. I am confidently told by liberals that large numbers of low-skilled immigrants (or residents, guest–workers) will not put downward pressure on wages, and I have read of two or three academic studies which seem to confirm this, but I remain skeptical. But only skeptical.

I think the real problem with the residency/guest-worker thing is, like in Germany, the residents/guest-workers will eventually want to become citizens – especially if they marry citizens. And we can’t, realistically, say, marry citizens of a traditional American religion.

Perhaps there is an African country whose ruling gangsters could be bribed/threatened into opening up their country to mass immigration. Pay them enough to agree to having this country run by the UN, or by a committee of people from civilized countries, for the next fifty years. Kill the ones who don’t agree or hold out for too big a bribe. Just thinking out loud here.

What I really don’t like is the response, to immigrants/refugees, of “Ah, let 'em just die.”

Still thinking out loud: Latin American militaries have shown themselves pretty good at killing their own people from time to time. Surely the El Salvadore military have got the patriotic motivation to do what is necessary to exterminate the gangs there? Suspend the constitution, surround the barios one by one, arrest the guys with the scary tatooes, and send them off for re-education by Professors Smith and Wesson. I suppose I’m being too idealistic here.


#6

Yes, I do think that anyone who is indifferent to a Pakistani Christian fleeing Islamist persecution, or to a small business owner trying to escape murderous extortionists in El Salvador … is lacking something, morally.

Being concerned about such people does not mean you have to let them in to your country. What to do about such people is another question.

You might take the attitude of people in an already full lifeboat, to desperate swimmers trying to get on board, and reluctantly beat them with your oars and let them drown – if the alternative is to sink the lifeboat.

Life is tough, there is no benevolent supernatural spirit hovering invisibly in the sky, and sometimes we have to make hard decisions.

As for the rest of your post – I don’t think you understand what I wrote. In any case, I don’t understand what you wrote.


#7

Why? AI isn’t general purpose, and you have to spend millions in R&D just to get it to do one thing well.

Further, most technology, AI included, doesn’t tend to automate entirely, but does instead what’s called deskilling.

It’s where you take a task that had to be performed by a skilled operator, and turn it into something someone less skilled + a piece of technology can do. (Which tends to be a far easier target to aim at design-wise.)

Clerical work in warehouses done by people good at that sort of thing, was replaced by hand workers with barcode scanners.

The net result of this, is that then those jobs grow in number. You’ll have a lot more people with scanners then you ever had of those clerical workers, and you can keep opening up more warehouses.

It’s for the same reason ATMs didn’t kill off bank tellers; they actually drove the tellers to increase. As the efficiency of the ATM meant that more branch offices for banks could be opened, which meant you’d need more bank tellers to staff them.

Ever seen “Modern Times”? It doesn’t seem to me marginally valuable assembly line work was very rewarding.

If you want more psychologically rewarding work, you need more value-added training & education. That’s where our schooling system should be coming in, if it was doing the same job Germany’s system does for its people.

They make their high schools offer trade school training, while we spend hand over fist for our colleges to act as (expensive) remedial high schools.

We got mixed up somewhere.

Africa is feeding the migration crises; along with Boko Haram in Nigeria, Libya falling apart, the Mali/Sahel region crisis, you have alot of problematic spots around the horn of Africa.

Eritrea, for instance, is like the North Korea of Africa; just less nukes and more mandatory conscription + starvation. And public denial of said starvation… with predictable results.

That’s not the problem (as I understand it); the gangs seized control in El Salvador for the same reason ISIS makes headway in Yemen; the Civil war so badly eroded basic civil functions, that the “bad guys” could just walk right in, and be the only real authority people in plenty of places could see.

The police’s standard tactic for years has been con mano dura – with an iron fist, but they don’t have the money or the manpower to actually put the gangs down, as ordinary people willfully support the gangs in a country that gives them little in the form of opportunity or stability.


#8

We’ve already had an instance of an AI-directed surgery go horribly bad, resulting in the death of the patient.


#9

Okay, what’s your takeaway about that?


#10

That AI has a LONG way to go before I’ll trust MY or my families lives to it.