"In Defense of Kathy Griffin"


#1

Extremely amusing piece by libertarian philosopher Jason Brennan defending Kathy Griffin. Excerpt:

**Donald Trump is fair game for pictures like this, as is every other president in my lifetime. Consider:

*The ‘If You Blow Kids Up You’re Fair Game for Being Beheaded in Effigy’ Argument:
*

  1. Donald Trump is responsible for blowing up at least one innocent kid in a way that cannot be justified according to just war theory.

  2. If you are responsible for blowing up at least one innocent kid in a way that cannot be justified according to just war theory, then you are not entitled to much respect. You are fair game for being mocked, condemned, and burned/hanged/beheaded in effigy.

  3. Therefore, Donald Trump is not entitled to much respect. He is fair game for being mocked, condemned, and burned/hanged/beheaded in effigy.

**Premise 1 is true. Do you dispute premise 2? Are we supposed to treat people who blow up innocent children unjustly in a nice way?

In Defense of Kathy Griffin - Bleeding Heart Libertarians


#2

J you have either lost your already tenuous grip on reality or you need to open a window and let the smoke out or you have allowed your hate of Trump to color your world to the point of blindness…


#3

It’s not an anti-Trump argument. It’s an anti-politics argument. Brennan is clear that this argument would apply to all presidents in his lifetime, as all of them have been, in one way or another, responsible for blowing up innocent children in a way that could not be justified according to just war theory:

The American presidency is a parade of evil behavior. Trump, Obama, Bush II, Clinton, Bush I, etc., are each responsible for the mass murder of innocents, and so each of them is among the worst human beings who have ever lived. Now, I admit American presidents aren’t especially bad compared to many other historical world leaders, but as Acton said, “Great men are almost always bad men…”

It’s perhaps a bit tongue-in-cheek, but an interesting argument even so. And an interesting question: do political leaders really deserve our respect? Does the office of president really have some sort of inherent “dignity?” Brennan answers “no” on both points.


#4

For starters, I cannot accept premise 1 unless I have a clear understanding of “just war theory”.

PS Don’t just run off a list of medieval and/or modern philosophers and theologians. Summarize what you mean by the term.


#5

I have no idea what all of that means. ^^^^^


#6

A lot of obscure crap about Trump, and that’s supposed to excuse Kathy Griffin?


#7

Anderson, I think your posts are a hoot. I find it humorous that with the use of your avatar you so obviously attempt to project your personal image as that of a deep thinker and scholar.

As a general proposition, I find your latest post to be mind-boggling. Contrary to the thrust of your missive - along with the pathetic attempt to bolster your point by Brennan’s message - Over the past several decades the people of America and her leaders, have demonstrated an unbelievable level of restraint in reacting to much of the hostility directed toward this country and her people. Frankly, I think we have very often responded utilizing too much restraint.

In any event, Mr. Anderson, in the immortal words of Fantasy Chaser, how is this obscure crap about Trump supposed to excuse Kathy Griffin?


#8

I see KG as someone desperately trying to play in the big leagues buy out doing all the others was something so radical that you’ll get a lot of calls for. In addition I don’t believe she’s mentally stable I think she’s drugged out and has some desperate needs and problems that need to be worked out in her life. She’s a loser in search of validity.


#9

Crickets, as usual, whenever there is a serious question about Anderson’s absurd rants.


#10

I’m not too terribly interested in getting into some sort of back and forth defense of Brennan’s argument. If there were some really interesting or thoughtful response, maybe I’d get sucked in, but so far nothing but garbage.

RWNJ, if you’re reading this, what happened to this board? Where are all the anarcho-capitalists? There used to be Rothbardians, Randians, Bremen (who I always saw as a sort of Walter Block disciple). How did this board lose 95% of its thoughtful posters? There used to be a lot of interesting and well-read people here. People I learned a lot from.

Anywho, it’s been a good year for Jason Brennan. His life’s work is essentially two topics:

  1. defending and advocating for free-market capitalism as the only just form of economic association

  2. arguing that universal suffrage is immoral, and that only epistemic elites should have voting rights.

I used to mock him for 2)…now…have to admit I’m shaken. Like I said, a good year for him.


#11

What was supposed to be thought provoking descended into silly (putting it nicely). Whether I post to the Internet a photoshop of me holding up my neighbor’s or Trump’s or Obama’s severed head, I would deserve the law enforcement “visit” it earned … and the arrest, and the prosecution.trial, and the jail sentence. Because KG is in the lower ranges of the elite she didn’t receive the arrest, etc. a normal person would.


#12

You state premise 1 as an established fact but see no need to define the terms in it. You like to throw about fancy words and names. I can’t tell you how impressed I am with your intellect…it might involve vulgar words. It is and always has been pointless to engage you in conversation. Why do you continue to post?


#13

I didn’t state anything. I quoted an argument from Jason Brennan. Your demanding that I explain just war theory to you and argue for Brennan’s argument as if it were my own is weird, and a response (beyond this) really isn’t possible (because your posts are confused).


#14

OK, I see now that you are just giving an excerpt. Since there were no quotation marks I was taking it as a comment on the argument. Why bother to post it? It is amusing? I find it about as amusing as the incident itself. I am quite certain that I would not agree to the factuality of premise 1 but I am not interested enough to delve into the views of Mr. Brennan and apparently you have no opinion.

Cheers.


#15

So it is wrong for a leftist organization like CNN to decide that in spite of ripping Trump without mercy on the back of an endless stream of fake news stories that this scumbag of a B-Lister has crossed a line that even they find beyond the pale?

Kathy Griffin is not in jail, she is free to enjoy the fruits of her hatred and ignorance; a free people has observed her character, judgment, agenda and priorities; and they have decided that they want no part of her.

Even Hitler had his defenders so I am not surprised that Kathy Griffin has some leaches that refuse to let go, if they can justify their own hatred and deception then I suppose it is only natural to save a seat on the bandwagon for Griffin.

Thank you President Trump for being so effective at motivating the Left into trumpeting their true agendas, motivations and character; that may end up being the only thing constructive that you do but it will prove most beneficial to future Americans.


#16

The active membership is much smaller than it was. The board was down before the election and remained down until just recently. People are just finding their ways back. I don’t know who you think were the thoughtful posters. We never had that many libertarians. Bremen the anarcho hadn’t posted for quite a long time prior to the board going down. Brett’s been gone even longer.

Intelligent members remain. They’re conservatives or Trump supporters, and some of them aren’t capitalists. Without an all-inclusive list, RET remains here, and he along with YOU with incredibly thoughtful posts, has had more direct impact on my thinking than anyone else at this site. I know you’ve had excellent discussions with RET. Recently, I think Old Dog also has posted excellent responses and extended conversations in an interesting way in other threads. In this thread, if he is to discuss the OP at all, he really does need to know what Brennan means by just war. Old Dog is not a libertarian and won’t necessarily have a basis to know this. I like Brennan, and I don’t know without looking what he means by just war. Libertarians are not homogeneous on it either.

Without reading further, I’m not interested in voicing an opinion on this particular topic. And atm, I’m not interested in reading further. In any case, the comedian has a right, defended right here in this thread by RET, to make her statement. The people have a right to respond to it. Brennan has a right to defend her. Who knows, maybe I agree with Brennan. Even if I do, I wouldn’t make the argument the way she did. It alienates people and is counterproductive, the same way that arguing capitalism is superior to socialism is useless when you’re talking to modern liberals without showing that capitalism is better at eliminating poverty than socialism.

You put the argument out there. Old Dog responded with a reasonable question. If you want a thoughtful response to it, it’s really in your court. If you’re not interested any more than I am or he is, I can’t imagine why you should expect any further response from Old Dog.

As for Brennan’s 1) and 2), I fully embrace 1) and I might mock him for 2); but he may have a point. I listen to some kids graduating high school with their newly minted right to vote, and heaven help us all. Heck, I listen to older adult voters and feel the same way.


#17

That’s why I have him on ignore.


#18

**

**Hence, I vote for moving to the Swiss system; 7 executives instead of just one. The office becomes far more deliberative while still being capable of moving swiftly when needed, and best of all, it tones done the iconoclastic nature of the executive considerably, instead hilighting them as the mere functionaries they’re supposed to be. Or at least, that’s been the noted effect on the Swiss themselves.

As to Kathy Griffin; don’t really even get why she’s mentioned. Can’t this just be thought of as a general critique of Trump failing to embody Classical Republican values, irrespective to what Kathy Griffin is doing?


#19

She is possibly a drug user. I can’t say and choose not to speculate. Calling her mental state into question is certainly reasonable. That she is, as you say, 170, “a loser in search of validity”, is unquestionably the case.


#20

Kathy Griffin made it a public statement when she held up the “head” of Trump bloodied and disgusting. She is the one who started this. She can’t seem to get enough publicity to jump start her non-existent career as a comedian. She’s a pig. She’s trying to outdo Lisa Lampenelli (not sure if that is her correct spelling) in the “let me see how much of a pig I can be” category. I think both of them deserve the title of “Queen Pig”. Madonna held that title for many years, now Miley Cyprus is vying for it.