Interesting (and exhaustive?) treatise on Islam


#1

Islam Guide: A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam, Muslims, & the Quran

I am a Roman Catholic so I didn’t know a lot about Islam. After spending 2-3 hours at the link above, I feel I have a better understanding of how they think. It is a good thing to note that all faiths have extremists.

I posted this because its good to know that ridiculous “Muslims are all terrorists and should be hung” mentality spewed by some in the name of being Conservative are very detrimental. I live in a blue state and they cite “dumb red neck” as the over all description of the right wing because of such dumb statements. Like when at a McCain rally someone in the crowd called Obama a “terrorist”. McCain, for the record, called the guy out on that and pointed out that he did not consider Obama a Terrorist. McCain was obviously dismayed at the insanity of that rally.


#2

I state up front that I have not read the link (yet).

As a new member, you are unaware of me and my family. My wife is Muslim and I am not. She came here from Iran, Her sect was declared illegal by the government of Iran. She has more religious freedom in the country than in her home country. We have sponsored three of her family members that are presently in our home. We live in some of the most red country in the US.

Even though I’m a Conservative, I am well aware that not all Muslims are terrorists. I have 4 of them in my home that are proof of that assertion. Read the last part of my signature. I believe that it sums things up concisely.

Also, when snotty, elitist, liberals start painting me as an uneducated redneck, I simply ask them questions that disprove their ASSumptions. My favorite thing ot do is ask them about their opinions of various physics related topics such as Einstein’s relatively and electron beam physics. This can shut some of them up but, being Liberals, they will usually show their true colora by denying that such knowledge (of which they are usually completely ignorant) and the education required to obtain it constitutes as being real education like some list of Liberal Arts subjects that require almost no studying to pass with high grades with which one can seldom find a job.

Then there is their similar reactions to revealing my family information after being painted as a knuckle-dragging, Bible thumping, bigoted racist. Somehow, my direct life experience is trumped and even negated by their list of clueless talking points.


#3

Well, if you want a Muslim source on Islam, why not just go to the source and read the Qur’an (Koran) itself. You should be able to find any number of translations at the library, a used book store (my Penguin paperback copy cost me less than $4) or at a store like Barnes & Noble or Borders. Or this site has three translations in parallel. Unlike the Bible the Qur’an is not organized, even partially, chronologically. It is organized by the size of the Surah (chapter), from longest to shortest. To some degree, you can read Surahs independent from each other. A key thing to understand about the Qur’an is that there can be contradictions, and whichever verse was written last is what is authoritative. You might find Surah 4 interesting, or maybe Surah 9. Obviously I have reasons for pointing toward those particular Surahs, but I think going to original sources and reading them, carefully, for oneself is a good habit.


#4

The only problem is, how can you be sure you’ve got a “real” translation, as opposed to one that sugarcoats some of their basic tenets? (for the “benefit” of those who disagree with them, and don’t speak Arabic).

And actually, there are 5 different versions - not translations, as we call “versions” of the Bible, but actually different versions, dependent on the branch of Islam. I think they have the same basis, but some drop some of the surahs, I think. I can’t remember where I heard/read this. CL, maybe your wife knows.


#5

For a long long time I wondered why the “Mullahs” were issuing “Fatwas” to kill people. What kind of “religious” leader does such despicable things ???

The “Mullahs” (or many of them) I found out are corrupt people using influence over a very large population throughout the world for their own personal gain.

This is one website I use for information (although I read with several grains of salt as I normally do with things on the internet).

Islam- What gave its glow and gloom. Islam-Submission-Introduction,definition, discussion, debate, laws, justice, human rights, history, terrorism, Jihad, women, Jews, Jesus, Christianity-Quran, Koran, Qur’an, Quranic topics, Index, Browser, several

The story on this first page gives an interesting picture of what went wrong with Islam and he ends with this;

[SIZE=2]With the entry of paper and printing press, those myopic Mullahs got easy and less-costly access to the printed Hadith. Consequently, it gave them a bonanza in earning their livelihood based on **religious interpretation **and leadership.

Misrepresented by the ill-educated and self-centered Mullahs, misinterpreting the message of the Koran, the Muslims are perceived as backward peoples today with nothing to offer to the rest of the world.

So my question; if Islamic religious leaders are encouraging violence, who is encouraging peace ???

.[/SIZE]


#6

This one does.
Hazrat Saleheddin Ali Nader Angha


#7

The only problem is, how can you be sure you’ve got a “real” translation, as opposed to one that sugarcoats some of their basic tenets?

The three translations used in the site I linked and the translation Penguin publishes are all decades old, with one possibly a century old. Thus they predate our modern mess and lack incentive to sugar-coat; as near as I can tell these translators were interested in accurate translation and representation of what the Qur’an says.


#8

Glad to hear that! I would want to have access to a reliable translation. I could possible print it out without an excessive amount of paper (unlike the Bible!).


#9

I take it this is your wife’s sect? Beautiful poetry, btw. Somewhat reminiscent of the Song of Solomon. I have often had impressions that Muslims tend to be rather poetic. Is that true, or just a “fairy tale”? Or is it just true of a small number of them?


#10

I notice that at the top of the list of Surah’s, it says “a transliteration” of the Qur’an, meaning, I presume, a word-for-word translation.


#11

:rofl: oh yeah. no bias there. search the site.

on the other hand…

Islam Watch - “The Logical Fallacies of Islamic Apologists” by Ibrahim Lone


#12

Yes.

I think poetry is more of a Persian thing. Persian poetry was a big thing prior to Islam.

If the site that I posted comes under attack, I will remove the link. It has happened before.

An example of a Muslim that promotes peace was requested and I provided one. I’m sure that some will criticize the example anyway. By the very nature of what they are, all religions are biased.


#13

I don’t know. I have yet to find a religion that won’t claim to have the correct version of their Holy Books.


#14

I have done so. But you have to remember that as a Catholic I believe in Traditioun + Scripture, not scriptures alone. and that is why just reading Koran is not sufficient anymore than just reading the Bible is sufficent to learn about “christianity”. There are hundreds of different interpretations, for instance, of the Bible’s many passages. Baptize in Christs name only, don’t baptize children, baptize children, don’t wear clothing from 2 different kinds of cloth, men with crushed testicles aren’t allowed in church, etc. Hence, to find out about Islam I don’t trust the Koran alone as I want to know what other Muslims think, not my interpretation of their Scriptures.

I will admit that the translation of the Koran which I have been reading is much easier to comprehend than aramaic --> greek (original aramaic lost) --> english translations that the Bible is mired in.

I also will admit that its a beautiful book from what I have read and that I hold it in high regard.


#15

Agreed.


#16

I will admit that the translation of the Koran which I have been reading is much easier to comprehend than aramaic --> greek (original aramaic lost) --> english translations that the Bible is mired in.

??? Except for the Deutero-Canonical books the Catholic Church recognizes as part of the Old Testament, it was written almost entirely in Hebrew, and almost all English translations of the Old Testament are from Hebrew manuscripts. The exceptions are, IIRC, a few verses in Aramaic in Daniel and/or Esther. As regards the New Testament, the only book for which I’ve heard of a tradition that it was originally written in Aramaic, translated to Greek and the Aramaic text then lost is Matthew. But it’s a tradition that is old - 4th Century or older - but for which there is no evidence. As for the rest of the NT, Luke was a Greek and seems to have written for a Greek audience. So the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts would have been written in Greek. Also, Paul’s epistles were written to churches that were mostly Greek-speaking (Asia Minor and Greece), so he also would have written in Greek. Revelation (Apocalypse) was also written to churches in Asia Minor, so it would have been written in Greek. 2 John and 3 John suggest being written to churches in Greek-speaking locations. I think you may have confused the tradition about Matthew as being traditional of the entire New Testament.


#17

When the term “transliterated” is used with regards to Hebrew, it means taking the original words and spelling them out in Roman characters. At least that’s what I remember. But I’m not sure where you’re looking, so I can’t check. =/


#18

[quote=“petitsourice, post:1, topic:28866”]
I posted this because its good to know that ridiculous “Muslims are all terrorists and should be hung” mentality spewed by some in the name of being Conservative are very detrimental. I live in a blue state and they cite “dumb red neck” as the over all description of the right wing because of such dumb statements. Like when at a McCain rally someone in the crowd called Obama a “terrorist”. McCain, for the record, called the guy out on that and pointed out that he did not consider Obama a Terrorist. McCain was obviously dismayed at the insanity of that rally.
[/quote]In spite of my great admiration for Islam I have trouble coming up with its accomplishments and productivce tendencies outside of the demolition field.


#19

I have done so.

I also will admit that its a beautiful book from what I have read and that I hold it in high regard.
It’s been a few years since I read the Qur’an through, but your comments puzzle me. The best I can recall is Qur’anic passages that might be analogous to some of the practical instruction writings of Moses or Paul (e.g. 1 Corinthians 14 or the second half of Ephesians 4). But I do not recall reading anything analogous to, for example, the famous Psalm 23, the soul-searching agony of the penitent Psalms 32 and 51, the challenging description of love in 1 Corinthians 13 or the theological treatise on soteriology in the first half of Romans.

Could you post Qur’anic quotes or references to Surah’s you found beautiful? You might find this site with 3 translations of the Qur’an helpful.


#20

OK, thanks, but it doesn’t look like that was what was meant, since it was referring to a translation.