INVASION: Army of Illegal Migrants Is Marching Its Way Through Mexico to U.S. Border


#107

You brought up “selling plastic doodads to each other”.

If you meant business between immigrants and Americans, your phrasing is awkward.


#108

I’m referring to your vaunted “entrepreneurs” among the immigrants–legal AND illegal–selling plastic doodads to each other, making each of them about $24K annually and then LAUDING them for “contributions” to the economy and culture, which is BS.


#109

They mostly sell to Americans; we’re their primary customer.

Which shows you the error of centralized economic assumptions; you don’t don’t know what the contribution is Dave, because you’re not the one involved in the transactions.

If farmers are willing to point guns at border agents to keep them off their land & away from their workers, their contribution would seem to be larger than you realize.

Saying “we don’t need that”, is the same BS the left pulls on healthcare; trying to decide what other people should be buying or doing. And it’s always elitist nonsense.


#110

You obviously didn’t read my whole post, AS. These “immigrants” (at LEAST the illegals) aren’t contributing much–if anything–to American business or our culture of a POSITIVE nature. It doesn’t matter to me how many left-wing “sources” you use for your “research.” WE know the truth of the matter because we live amongst them on a daily basis and watch our tax money being squandered to keep them fat and healthy while our own citizens go hungry and homeless. Our paychecks shrink every year (until THIS year) so illegals can get their children medicated and educated at our expense and so the government can throw more money at countries who are pushing their poor across our borders.


#111

Elitism; it’s not for you to decide what contribution is important or not. You are not “economic king”.

It’s not your livelihood on the line when you talk about farmers and meatpackers like that, so quit acting like a libtard.


#112

Foundation for Economic Education is left-wing? The Reason Foundation is left-wing?

American Enterprise is left-wing?

Or is it that you conveniently calling any economist who disagrees with you left wing, because you don’t want to try Dave?

Because your starting point is not economics, and your frustrated that economics calls you wrong?
That economics states that there is a need for migrant labor, which goes back over 100 years?

Before any law you want to cite on immigration even existed?

You can’t use laws to rewrite well known economic realities; that’s called being a damned fool.


#113

I’m getting a bit tired of your continually calling me “lazy” or “ignorant”, AS. YOU are not the arbiter of what’s true and what isn’t, The fact is, illegals COST taxpayers $81 billion annually and they do NOT produce that much beneficial economic activity that “benefits” anyone BUT each other and the countries from which they fled.


#114

You keep talking down about people who are struggling to get the help they need to run their farms, with no idea of what it is they’re going through.

You don’t even go ask them. You treat yourself as if you don’t need to, you just assume you know everything that’s relevant, and proceed to pretend that it’s just greed motivating them.

Meanwhile, nothing about your own lifestyle is affected if you’re wrong, only they pay the price. You don’t pay the consequence for ignoring them, and treating their needs as irrelevant.

Elitism or laziness, I don’t care which it is, it’s wrong.


#115

BS. Over 75% of illegals are working at jobs OTHER THAN “farm” or “ranch” jobs. Please explain to us ignorant people how addressing the problems engendered by those 75% of illegals is “not caring” about the needs of farmers. Farm workers don’t bring their families with them–for the most part. They come here, work during the planting to harvesting seasons and then GO HOME. We aren’t expected to pay for their children’s education or health care–at least not directly. BY FAR, most farm and ranch activity is done by corporate farms. Those “farmers” live in LA or even NYC. What they’re interested in is CHEAP labor…not labor itself. They are members of the U.S. CofC and the Business Roundtable, which have been touting open borders for decades so their members CAN acquire cheap, illegal workers.


#116

You just deflected Dave, no answer given, to Farmers who need these workers.

Here’s the truth of the matter; you can both have illegals taking benefits, and farmers needing them as workers.

Both of these things can be true, they don’t contradict themselves, because the drivers of immigration are complex, not singular.

Nope, people bring their entire families, and work as migrant communities, all the darn time.

Simplifying the issue for your own convenience, doesn’t fly here, when you’re leaving too much of the complexity out.

And we need cheap labor.

Wake up Dave, they harvest the same crops in Mexico for $10 a day, the same in Turkey. If they don’t get this labor, the crop goes overseas, or across the border.

Is that what you want?


#117

For the umpteenth time, THERE IS NO “NEED” FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT LABORERS. The ONLY reason corporate farmers “need” them is because they won’t have to pay them what they’d have to pay citizen or LEGAL immigrant labor. That’s it…period. Yes, it’s really as simple as that. There’s nothing “complex” about it. I worked on a farm for much of my youth–without getting paid one centavo for it. The only “benefit” I got was that farmer allowed me to hunt rabbit, squirrel, quail and morel mushrooms on his land when I wasn’t milking cows, shucking corn by hand, shelling and grinding it for cattle feed, collecting eggs, feeding the chickens or bailing red clover hay and putting it into the loft.


#118

Counties have been depopulated for decades; quit being a libtard, quit quoting Bernie Sanders, and go ask people.

Quit making assumptions, quit making excuses, you have none, go. ask.


#119

I worked in rural communities for the 25 years prior to my retirement. I suspect I’ve talked to virtually INFINITELY more such people than you have, AS. NONE of them believe illegals were necessary to THEIR businesses, even though one or two had employed them at one time or another.


#120

Not recently you haven’t.

Go do it now. You don’t have an excuse. I don’t even live in a rural county, and still I managed this.


#121

So, now you want him to get anecdotal evidence, and call him a libtard?


#122

Not anecdotal evidence, direct communication from the people involved.

It’s easy to make light of other people, and write them off as greedy, until you go talk to them.


#123

So why should tax payers subsidize agriculture’s labor costs? How is this adding value to the economy? If we must subsidize agriculture, wouldn’t it be better to subsidize the domestic labor force instead of bringing in scabs, and then making tax payers pick up the slack?


#124

Change the composition of benefits; which we need to do anyway.

It’s frankly a stupid idea, to think farmers will get by with too few High schoolers who don’t work hard, and who leave the moment something better turns up.

We benefit from having workers who stick around/continually show up for those jobs, develop relationships with their employers, and work. hard. Less labor turn around = more productivity.

Are you out of your mind? “Scabs” doesn’t fit the situation. At all. Counties all over the U.S. have been depopulated for decades. Jobs have been left empty in these places, as people like Mike Rowe will testify, for decades. No one shows up, because no else is there in these counties, save for a handful of high schoolers and these migrant workers.

The relationship the farmers have with these migrants is damn old, older than any law or benefit you want to point to. There’s plenty reason for why it exists; trends embedded in sociology & the industry that will not go away simply because a legislator wants to rewrite reality with a damn penstroke.

You keep insisting on that, all you will get, is the produce heading overseas and us importing our food.


#125

Solution:
Build all new section 8 housing near farmlands. Viola! No more scabs needed.

There are many, many ways to deal with this problem and “Import unskilled labor and subsidize the gap between what the business pays them and a living wage” is the worst possible solution.


#126

Farmers already provide housing for their employees as a common benefit.

Still, no one moves out to these counties. Americans make only 10% of the workforce at the start of the season, and they don’t stay:

You can’t ignore realities Cwolf just because you find them inconvenient; no one else goes into these counties.

People’s own kids leave, and go to the cities.

They get paid around $10.50/hr (it may be going up because there’s a shortage). The immigrants consider that livable, they’re not competing with anyone, and. they. stay. , which means this sector is made more productive by having experienced workers year-in and year-out.

This has been going on for over a century. The only result that will come out of disrupting this relationship, is sending the produce overseas, because no large enough group of natives is going move out there to replace them.