Is Rittenhouse guilty?

You.
Didn’t you post that piece showing conservatives were bad, etc? I’m trying to answer the points in it.

Wasn’t me…?

Nonsense, Doug. The so-called “Southern Strategy” is a myth, perpetrated by leftist Democrats to explain why they lost total control of the American South. BTW, that “loss of control” was a VERY slow process. Even as bad as he was, Clinton won the majority of the South in BOTH of his elections and that was over a decade after the mythical “Southern Strategy” was supposedly implemented. The Bull Conners, Gov. Faubus and George Wallaces ALL remained Democrats to their deathbeds.

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Correct. Its too bad that Doug buys into that goofy propaganda.

Yes, I don’t buy the full ‘Southern Strategy’ argument of the Left – that is, the argument that says “white Sotherners, vicious racists that they are, voted Democrat until the Civil Rights Act (which LBJ predicted would lose the South for the Democrats for a generation), then the Republicans jumped in and said, We’re the racists now, vote for us!”

I know this is false because I have my own Southern white focus group, namely, my Texas relatives.

They’re not PC, but they’re not racists either. Like many people of their class and area, military service and reflexive patriotism was the norm for them. They were perfectly happy to vote for JFK and LBJ, and even for Adlai Stevenson.

It was Vietnam, not the Civil Rights movement, that changed things for them, I believe – the sense that the Democrats at their core were no longer really a pro-American party. (Not so much Vietnam, but the reaction to Vietnam by our cultural elite.)

Some of them, at least, are ‘economic liberals’ (as am I) – which is what the old Southern Democrats were – perfectly happy with the Tennessee Valley Authority and old-age pensions and the minimum wage, and even unions (then).

They live among lots of Mexican-Americans, and I’ve never heard a word of hatred about Mexicans from my relatives. They’re realistic, not PC. Their attitude towards ‘Hispanics’ is probably like that of the Irish towards the Italians, and vice versa, in New York. Not something our tender snowflakes would approve of, but nothing rising to the level of ‘racism’.

As for Blacks – I recall well one night at a family dinner, one of my second-cousins, a mischief-maker by nature, deliberately used the ‘N-word’ at the table. Conversation halted abruptly – there was a frozen silence – we all stared at him in disapproval … and that was that. Now I’m a pointy-headed believer in equality, etc … but my relatives are not. They are ‘just’ good decent ordinary Americans, not the products of Marxist college professor indoctrination. This was their genuine, spontaneous, sincere response. Maybe it wouldn’t have been that way sixty years ago, I don’t know. But now it is.

Of course, AntiFa/BLM are doing their best to undermine this reflexive attitude, by forcing people to declare their ‘anti-racist’ Ideological Purity or be labelled ‘white supremacists’. I’m sure my relatives, and most Americans, have resisted this Devil’s Choice … for now.

But I wouldn’t be surprised, if they keep being told, over and over, not just by the Antifa vermin but, implicitly and even explicitly, by the Democratic tops, the MSM, Hollywood, the professors … that whites are inherently evil racists, whose only historical achievements were imperialism and slavery … … I wouldn’t be surprised if this attitude doesn’t start to change. This will not be a good thing.

As for the ‘Southern Strategy’ … of course it’s referring to something real.

You are absolutely right that in the simple Republcians-embrace-demonic-forces version that the Left puts forward, it’s nonsense.

But the phenomenon of the transformation of the South from the ‘Solid South’ to a ‘Red State’ Republican bastion (now fading away) is real and is worth studying in detail.

There is a good introduction to all the issues involved with it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

This is not you?

I was raised in Indiana, at one time, a bastion of KKK members. In the early 20’s, Indiana had the highest per-capita membership in the Klan and you HAD to have the KKK’s endorsement to be elected to any pubic office. In later years, I discovered that the Marion County Township where my family iived was essentially “black-free” and that was by design. I didn’t know it until long after I’d graduated from HS and had moved my residence to Texas, however. We had ONE black girl in my graduating class in 1960 and the only reason I knew she was black was I once met her brother who obviously was. I don’t think any of my classmates knew. My grandfather was reputed to be a racist, but even so I NEVER heard the “N” word uttered in my presence until my 11th Grade year when we were leaving to play Wood HS in basketball which was a predominantly black HS in Indianapolis and someone used the word as we were getting on the team bus. I didn’t know what the word meant and our coach had to warn us NOT to use the word before or during the game. He later explained to me that it was a bastardization of the word “negro” which I HAD heard before. When we still lived IN Indianapolis, I had attended desegregated schools from Kindergarten through the 5th grade, after which we moved out to Decatur Township when I started 6th grade. One of my worst shocks after joining the Army was when I flew into Nashville, TN, and saw “Whites only” signs on restrooms and drinking fountains. It actually angered me at the time.

My wife graduated HS in 1964 in north-central Texas and her class was the first integrated class ever at her HS. She confided that some of her black classmates scared her spitless, as she was tiny at 5’1" and 85 pounds soaking wet. Still, when I elected to informally adopt an 8-year-old black kid whose mother had died of leukemia, she made no objection and grew to think of him as our “son.” I was the only police officer in our department who never hesitated to go into minority neighborhoods alone and chat up residents there. In 1975, I was presented with a plaque engraved with the “Humanitarian Award” by the black Dunbar Neighborhood Association, the first ever awarded any white man, let alone any police officer. BTW, that 8-year-old black kid will be 60 years old in about 2 weeks, father of three (one adopted) and grandfather of 5 and still married to his HS sweetheart after 39 years and employed in Dallas by a defense contractor.

Wonderful!

I am sure that there are thousands of such stories all across America, although perhaps not as powerful as yours.

Here is one, recorded by a liberal writer for a leading leftwing journal, ten years ago. He got himself selected as a delegate to the national Tea Party convention.

His account of it is honest – although obviously from a critical standpoint – but I especially appreciated this part, which I’ll quote at length – it’s well worth reading:

" Most of us were political novices. When we were asked how many attendees had never been involved in politics before joining the Tea Party movement, roughly four out of every five people raised their hands. On the outside balcony where the smokers gathered, I was joined at a table by an intense, wiry, close-cropped, redheaded woman from southern Virginia who dated her conversion to hearing Sarah Palin for the first time.

“She was me ! She’s so down-to-earth! If Sarah was sitting here with us now, she’d be just a normal person like you and me. You could say anything to her. She’s not like a politician—she’s real . And Sarah always keeps her word. If Sarah promises something, you know she’ll do it. She’s just am az ing.”

Before Sarah, the woman said, her interest in politics had been limited to voting in general elections. Her one big involvement was with her church. Now she was traveling around the country on behalf of Team Sarah and Conservative Moms for America, a fundamentalist group whose “Conservative Moms Pledge” begins with a quote from the first epistle of Saint Peter:

Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear.

In the last year, she’d marched on 9/12, gone to CPAC—the Conservative Political Action Conference—and attended a string of acronymic events, which she recited to me. Soon she’d be off to New Orleans for the Southern Republican Leadership Conference.

Lighting her second cigarette in ten minutes, she talked about missing her family on these political jaunts. After their own children were grown, she and her husband had adopted two infant daughters, now aged six and nine. The girls were the light of their sixty-ish lives. One was autistic, the other severely developmentally disabled: her birth mother was an “alcoholic” and a “drug addict,” and the baby had suffered a series of strokes in the delivery room, where her heart had twice stopped beating.

“The hospital said they doubted if she was salvageable. Salvageable! Imagine talking about a human life as ‘salvageable’! You see why I love Sarah? We have so much in common.” She rattled on about her girls’ accomplishments—how nearly normal they were, how happy, how responsive to the warm climate of affection in which they now lived. “Here, I’ll show you….” She found her cell phone in her bag and treated me to a slide show of family photos: her husband, a heavily built man in plaid shirt and jeans, playing with their daughters in a well-kept backyard. She hadn’t bothered to mention that both girls were black."

[https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2010/03/25/at-the-tea-party/]

I hardly think RO is going to turn into an echo chamber/amen corner . . . and here’s why:

Just among the conservatives here, I really don’t think there is enough agreement to consider this an echo chamber/amen corner. Getting two conservatives to agree on a certain point is like trying to herd cats.

Yes, there IS general agreement on the “big picture”, but it is the “details” that we discuss most often here. And in that arena, there are as many different opinions as there are members.

Conclusion: NO echo chamber . . . NO amen corner!

@csbrown28

Why are you here? Very few here (if any) hold you in high regard. I lost count of all the posts where my brethren called you a “moron”. No matter though . . . this forum will likely whither and die. You might consider giving the membership here a heads up on where you plan to go next. That way, we will all know WHERE NOT TO GO.

No, this is no echo chamber or amen corner, for sure.
And my experience among conservatives has been that not only do you find, “Two conservatives, three opinions”, but that there is a sub-species of conservative you sometimes find who retains all his hatred for other conservatives. With these people, you really hope that they will become Lefties and go spread discord among the Left.

I really don’t understand the animosity against CBBrown (although I expect having to defend Trump against his attacks has something to do with it).

He’s civil, has a reasonable – as opposed to knee-jerk – approach to things … what else do you want?

I personally find it useful to know what the thoughtful Left is thinking nowadays.

But if people think that his interventions disrupt intra-conservative discussion – which is a reasonable view – then why not have a ‘Left vs Right’ subforum where he can post and where those of us who want to duel with him can do so. (I took part, years ago, on a very good forum called Liberal Forum, which did something like this. The main forum was for debate, but there were ‘Conservative Only’ and ‘Liberal Only’ sub forums. I don’t think anyone went there very often though.

Gee, if you want to see real hydrophobic lefties, get on a site like, say, FriendlyAtheist ( what a misnomer that is!) [ https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/ ] and hint that you don’t agree with the progressive politics of the regulars … and whoa, you’ll feel the fires of Hell on your head.

Doesn’t matter if you are religious or not. As is often the case, very few of them are able to source their arguments – which is typical of younger Lefties, who seem to be functionally illiterate. But they make up for their ignorance with their vehemence. I go on there from time to time to post something very unPC and stir them up … for the same reason that, when I was ten years old, I used to throw stones at wasps’ nests. Not very humane – they weren’t bothering me at all - but such fun to see the angry turmoil!

Come to think of it … could that be why CBBrown comes here?

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Not much here that I would disagree with, although we could have a debate about the word ‘intelligence’, and whether IQ tests capture some underlying quality of it.

In America, for the last seventy years, there has not in fact been a huge amount of difference between the Right and Left, in terms of what they actually did when each was in power. We all agreed on, or acquiesced in, a version of capitalism, modified by various state programs to rub off its sharp edges. The ‘Roosevelt Revolution’ was accepted by Republicans, but when it went too far – as eligibility for welfare did after Vietnam, then it was corrected, with the support or at least not the opposition of many Democrats: see the ‘Clinton Welfare Reforms’.

And we agreed on foreign policy – Communism had to be contained. (Some of the most hawkish Cold Warriors were Democrats — although some of them become Republicans after the Democrats began to become more dovish in the 70s.)

Both sides accepted legal equality for Black Americans, and then racial discrimination in their favor.

Now … that has changed. Why, I’m not entirely sure. But Left and Right hate each other with the sort of deep, sustained fury that you normally only see in countries on the verge of civil war. (Read about Chile under Allende, and then under Pinochet.)

So who knows what’s coming? A big military humiliation for America, at the hands of a rising China – could be the catalyst for something which is currently unthinkable.

So, patriots. Get that AR15 and a half dozen magazines and 2000 rounds of ammunition now. Don’t wait until November, because if the Democrats win the elections, they will be sold out in six hours. And go to CivilianDefenseForce.Org to find out what to do next.

In the meantime, let’s keep up this pleasant debate.

Simple. To know the opinions of the people who I’d have the greatest amount of disagreement with. Despite what some might think (not you), coming hear has taught me some lessons about the right (positive things) that I wouldn’t know if I didn’t come here. I can say to others that I’ve had conversation with people who consider themselves politically right-leaning, some moderately and others more so. Directly, I didn’t learn my perceptions of the right from CNN or NYT. Though, some people here justify those positions, others here, like you exceed expectations.

I prefer not to be in an echo chamber and I like putting my ideas out there to be challenged and broken apart. I think my idea about things is generally on pretty solid ground, but people here have, from time to time, made me think twice about things I thought were true or took for granted.

For example, @BobJam and I had a discussion about voting as a right. I believe the argument was clear cut and beyond reproach. While I think it is still the case, Bob is right about one thing, the argument is not beyond reproach. Personally I’d like to see a little clarity, but in this age of polar division, I doubt we’ll see much in the way of meaningful clarifications to questions like voting as a right or privilege.

Ok, fair enough, although you might also consider subscribing to one or two conservative journals where the really smart conservatives hang out:
Try American Conservative [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_American_Conservative ] –
[ https://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ]

and perhaps The Claremont Review of Books. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claremont_Review_of_Books ] [ https://claremontreviewofbooks.com]
The first is of the non-interventionist ‘Main Street conservatism’ wing of American conservatism, and the latter is more congenial to the Straussian approach to politics.

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Any 17 year old showing up on the streets of a city in the midst of a riotous situation is a fool. The kid is guilty of being an idiot for doing so and for carrying what I have heard described as a rifle - “long gun”. That said, is he guilty of murder? The case is under investigation. As in all such matters - police shootings as well - let’s wait for the investigation to conclude before annointing Rittenhouse a saint.

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The guys in Boston who started pelting a squad of British soldiers with horse manure, and who precipitated the Boston Massacre, were acting unwisely. Don’t throw things at men with rifles (or muskets, as was the case here).

But … sometimes people, especially young people, act on impulse in ways that older and wiser heads would not advise.

This kid’s background, so far as I’ve seen, is not that of a gun-crazy sociopath. Nor did he seek out a confrontation. He got isolated – the same mistake Steve Baca made in Albuquerque, and ‘Jay Bishop’ did, fatally, in Portland… .and so the hyenas of AntiFa went for him.

If anyone is to ‘blame’ it’s the militia movement, who have been caught off guard by the rise of BLM/AntiFa and these riots. For years they have supposedly trained for something like this (along with lots of fantasy bs related to guerilla warfare, and repeats of what many of them learned in the military which is applicable to conventional warfare – or conventional unconventional warfare in places like Afghanistan – but is and will be irrelevant in the USA.

They envisioned a ‘rooftop Koreans’ scenario, the one we saw in the Rodney King riots three decades ago. An unorganized mob heading towards businesses, with them in a militarily and legally defensive position, the police unable for purely tactical reasons to intervene at that moment, the tacit support of the media and of all of Middle America.

They weren’t prepared for AntiFa, who have begun as unarmed (ie not with firearms) rioters, the police restrained by their Democratic masters, the mass media o the side of the rioters and looters. They weren’t prepared for ‘unarmed’ combat.

I’m not blaming them. We were all caught by surprise. In hindsight, we should have been prepared to fight, at first, without firearms. And we should have been telling everyone who would listen, the Kyle Rittenhouses of the world, that if you want to be part of defending freedom in this struggle, you MUST be part of an organized, disciplined group. No freelance knights wanted, because of exactly what has happened: you get cut off, surrounded, and then it’s kill or be killed … and we don’t want such situations.

Okay … better late than never. Everyone should join a militia … now … and a sensible one, not a group of aging adolescents. Come to CivilianDefenseForce.org and sign up and join or help to form a local group which will be able to incorporate the Kyles of the world so that their ardent desire to defend liberty can be put to good use.

Kyle Rittenhouse is an American hero. He is one of our own. Whatever the wisdom of his actions, we must be absolutely solid in his defense. The vermin of the Left can make a hero out of a convicted violent felon who resists arrest. We have a young man who risked a lot to defend other people’s property. Our response should be a reflex action.

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Yah, its better to sit on the couch like lardass RINO’s and watch the nation burn at the hands of socialists while you drink another beer, eh?

The kid is as brave as any 17 year old who stormed the beaches of France.

He’s already a Saint and a Hero. We don’t need your permission.

NOW you’re talking my language man.! :+1:

Trump Train, you are OK with a 17 year old kid (child) injecting himself into the midst of anarchists and rioters while carrying a rifle - a rifle calling attention to himself and predictably inviting a confrontation? To what purpose? Predictably, all he accomplished was getting himself arrested, likely getting himself a prison sentence and providing media with yet another talking point - as though media needed more made-up/biased talking points…

A “hero”? No. More like an impulsive 17 year old child whose heart was in the right place even if his thought process regarding consequences was not.

BTW - where in the hell were the kid’s parents?.

.

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