It's not possible to support Trump and still be a decent human being


#1

“Racism” can be judged by either a psychological condition, or by behaviors. The former seems dubious to me, for I think obvious reasons. Voting for Trump entails supporting ideas and policy proposals that will have disproportionately harmful effects on minorities. Furthermore, Trump is explicitly racist. Hence, voting for Trump is straightforwardly racist behavior. The upshot of this is that, if you’re supporting Trump, you’re just not a very good human being, and you really ought to step back and reconsider your life and your values. Trump is running the most ugly and immoral campaign in recent memory. There simply isn’t a good reason for supporting him that doesn’t entail moral failure.

I say this as someone who has been defending Trump voters in other contexts (I think both the left and the right have quite a bit of soul searching to do). For example, I’ve said elsewhere, to a group of leftists:

"A lot of the narrative around Trump is that his candidacy demonstrates that America is in big trouble because it allegedly shows how stupid people are. It’s actually worse than that. America is in big trouble because, for the segment of the population supporting him, Trump is the economically rational choice. That is, if you’re a working class strait white without a college degree, and you’re looking around at the choices, selecting Trump is fairly rational. For one, Trump is the only person saying to those uneducated working class whites that he’s their man. When large portions of the left have essentially turned “strait white male” into a pejorative, what does the left have to offer working class whites exactly? A chance for noble self-sacrifice? Good luck selling that as a political strategy.

The left is correct to critique Trump’s supporters as racist and xenophobic; they are both of these things. But this isn’t the only, or even the main, reason they are supporting him. They’re supporting him because he’s speaking to their rational economic self-interest. And at the end of the day, this is what the vast majority of people cast votes for."


#2

?

So 40 percent of registered Republicans - including myself - are rotten human beings. Nice to know.

I should take offense at that. However, after seeing your post comparing Catholics to Muslims and saying that Catholicism is incompatible with American values, I am just going to chalk it up to a very uninformed - perhaps willfully so - mind.

You have a great day decent human being.

Oh, BTW: Trump is not racist, and neither are we indecent Trump supporters. The race card is for people who want to lash out and have no good argument to lash out with.


#3

I don’t believe Trump is a racist. However, he should denounce some of his racist supporters. Seriously, look at the replies to his tweets, you’ll see stuff like “anti-racist is code for anti-white” and people who admire Hitler.


#4

This is a self-righteous horseshit logical fallacy dressed up in warm and fuzzy language in the style typically used by psuedo-intellectual progressives.

  1. Some Trump supporters are racist.

  2. I support Trump.

Therefore, I am a racist.


#5

I’m not sure you understand either my argument, or what a logical fallacy is. At any rate, my actual argument is closer to this:

  1. Trump is a racist with racist positions.
  2. If you support a racist with racist positions, then you are engaging in racist behavior.
  3. If you are engaging in racist behavior, then you are a racist.
  4. You support Trump.
  5. Therefore, you’re a racist.
  6. If you’re a racist, then you aren’t a decent human being.
  7. Therefore, you’re not a decent human being.

#6
  1. Trump is a racist with racist positions. FALSE
  2. If you support a racist with racist positions, then you are engaging in racist behavior. TRUE
  3. If you are engaging in racist behavior, then you are a racist. TRUE
  4. You support Trump. TRUE
  5. Therefore, you’re a racist. FALSE
  6. If you’re a racist, then you aren’t a decent human being. TRUE
  7. Therefore, you’re not a decent human being. FALSE

Fixed it for you. (Inappropriate “language” deleted by PeteS; inappropriate crude language “hidden” using the NATO phonetic alphabet is still inappropriate, od)


#7
  1. The sky is blue.
  2. Some racists like the blue sky.
  3. You like the blue sky.
  4. You are racist.

#8

If he did denounce these alleged supporters, would his detractors then support him? Would he score points with those who don’t like him? Nope, no way. Every politician has wackos that follow them for one reason or another. Its a waste of time to address them, and doing so would merely make things worse by shining more light on the subject.

The biggest loudest racist hate group in America today is Black Lives Matter and the Democrats openly embrace the fascists. As for racists who allegedly support Trump, I haven’t got the slightest idea who they might be. Do you?

I wish I had said that. :smile:


#9

He is supported by the alt-right which is basically a white nationalist and usually anti-Semitic movement. They call non-racist conservatives “cuckservatives.”


#10

You’re goofy. And what the heck is an “alt-right?”


#11

The “Alternative Right.” It’s a group of people who call themselves either Conservatives or Libertarians and are racists. I’ve argued with them before. They think that political views are determined by genetics, with white people having a freedom gene and other races having a big government gene. They not only oppose illegal immigration but they also oppose non-white legal immigration. They call Conservatives and Libertarians who disagree with them “cuckservatives” and “cucktarians.” Some of them think that illegal immigration is a “Jewish Conspiracy.”

I’m not accusing anyone on this forum of belonging to that group, but they are out there and you can find them pretty easily on twitter and on comment sections. They almost universally support Trump.


#12

“Alt-Right” ?? Never heard of them.


#13

That’s a good thing.

They are a small but vocal minority within the right. I’ve argued with them on other parts of the internet.


#14

For such a small group, that means little or nothing.


#15

I’ll admit that I was taken in by Trump there for a while. I started out thinking, WHAT A BLAST! to the insecure dweebs who were too skeered to speak the truth when truth is what was NEEDED!

Proceeded to take Trump seriously after a time. Thought he actually could bring honor back to this country by telling our adversaries off, and sticking by our TRUE allies. Cutting off the border and telling Muslims “You’re not Welcome” appealed to me, too. Who could it not?

The salesman’s bloom has gone off his rose.

He’s either calling us stupid for not knowing how bad tariffs are for the economy, or he…No, Trump is not that stupid.
He has little to no respect for the Constitution.

I’m done.


#16

So then, for Trump to denounce them would actually make them known. Not a good idea.


#17

No kidding. Sounds like about the stupidest reason on earth for not supporting a candidate, no matter your leanings.
"Oh, gee. A bunch of useless wonders who nobody’s ever heard of with the most idiotic notions on earth support this guy so I think I’ll withhold my support!"
Good grief.

And who, pray tell, was given the province to define these morons a even being “on the right?” (side of politics.)
Gee, let me guess, somebody who was maybe out to get people to hate Conservatives???

Just a guess…


#18

Probably a GOOD guess, 2cent. I remember how the “progressive” left has tried for decades now to equate conservatives with fascists and Nazis by claiming both as “far right” movements–which is utter nonsense. The ONLY thing either philosophy shares with conservatism is nationalism–which is NOT a bad thing at all. Other than that, they are MUCH closer to leftist socialism than they are to conservatism. The only DIFFERENCE between fascism and Nazis and Communists is in WHO it is that owns the means of production. In fascism, the means of production are owned privately, but CONTROLLED by big government. In communism, the means of production are owned AND controlled by big government. Other than that, the philosophies are identical!


#19

@Lord Brennus

I could easily make an argument that you are a racist based on Rand Paul’s past statements on the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It would also be a flawed argument but with more supporting evidence than the one made by the OP.

PS To clarify, I don’t think you or Rand Paul is really a racist.


#20

[MENTION=7218]J.Anderson[/MENTION] reasonable people can hold unreasonable viewpoints for reasonable and unreasonable reasons. These reasonable people have or believe they have good reason to fear Mexicans infiltrating through our southern border and Muslims blowing up them and their stuff. They may not understand the economics of illegal immigration very well or may hold a different opinions based on the wide variety of statistics and the vast amounts of evidence (information overload, noise and lies to support any and all positions) available on the topic.

With illegal immigration: “They took ourrr jooobs” and “drain our resources with their welfare.” That’s not remotely racist motivation (it’s economic ignorance) for supporting a candidate who they believe might actually do something about it.

With Muslim terrorists: “Extreme Muslims blew up our buildings and killed Americans on our soil. They do it constantly year in and year out. We ought to do something about it.” Again, not a racist motivation. It’s an argument of self-defense.

Trump supporters have a reasonable expectation that Trump is their guy and he’ll solve these two important problems. They disagree with you and me substantially about the economic impact of illegal Mexicans and likely about the magnitude of the Muslim threat too. They misunderstand the economic impact of China, just as they did with Japan many years ago. But that doesn’t imply racism or that they’re not decent human beings.

So old dog can reasonably say your first premise is incorrect. I agree with him on this. I disagree with him about Trump. Decent people can support Trump even if Trump is the one of the most horrible candidates in recent history for a variety of reasons, including his character.