It's not possible to support Trump and still be a decent human being


#21

I wasn’t suggesting that either Trump or the majority of his supporters are racist. I just think he needs to distance himself from those supporters of his. Instead, Trump has been retweeting neo-Nazi twitter accounts. I don’t think those accounts represent Trump’s views but it says something about him that he doesn’t bother check before he retweets.


#22

Just lends credibility to the theory that his caricature of conservatism is just shilling for the criminal Hillary.


#23

I am fairly ignorant of the ins and outs of twitter but I would be very interested in seeing evidence of this.


#24

Twitter is a blast. Here’s my page: https://twitter.com/TruthFromTerry

Once you learn how to use hashtags and stuff its a lot of fun. I’ve had celebs tweet back to me.

Here’s The Donald’s page: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump


#25

This tweet:

Neil Turner is anti-Semtic and racist.

And then there is this:

This is not the first time that @keksec_org has been featured on a Donald Trump tweet. He is also racist and anti-Semitic.


#26

Actually, there is objective evidence that illegals DO “take our jobs.” After ICE raided that Iowa meat-packer and took away more than a dozen and a half illegals, the next day there were over 1000 applicants for those jobs that the illegals had held–and ALL of the applicants were either LEGAL immigrants or US citizens!


Protesters Remove U.S. Flag, Replace It With Mexican Flag Outside ICE Facility
#27

[quote=“Pappadave, post:26, topic:48140”]
Actually, there is objective evidence that illegals DO “take our jobs.” After ICE raided that Iowa meat-packer and took away more than a dozen and a half illegals, the next day there were over 1000 applicants for those jobs that the illegals had held–and ALL of the applicants were either LEGAL immigrants or US citizens!
[/quote]This is what I’m talking about J. I just don’t see racism at the heart of this statement at all – I dunno if Dave supports Trump or not, but this kind of thing is at the heart of “build a wall now!”


#28

RWNJ, wake me up when Trump is placing stress on the need to cut down on “job taking” Asian and European immigrants. Trump focuses on two heavily maligned racial groups (Hispanics and Arabs) for a reason: because it speaks to the bigotry of many conservatives (it’s also no innocent mistake that Trump just happens to be gaining huge support among white supremacist groups). I’m not interested in debating the personal psychology of anyone (though, if I had to place money on it, I’d bet that, in their hearts of hearts, the Trump supporters on this thread support him in part because of their racist beliefs); if your behavior is racist (e.g. supporting a candidate with racist positions and attitudes), then that makes you a racist, regardless of your other psychologies or reasons for voting for him.

Think about it like this: even if a German voted Hitler into power because they really loved his ideas on reformed socialism, they’re still a racist by the very fact of voting for a racist with racist policy proposals. Agree?


#29

Let’s not even intellectualize it, and just get real. We all know what most conservatives like Trump voters tend to say about minorities when they have a few beers in them. Over Christmas with the in-laws, almost all Trump supporters, it was non-stop blatantly racist conversation about Mexicans. Now, if those same people, instead of having drinks in private, were here on this public forum, they’d surely deny to their last breath that they’ve ever had a racist thought in their lives. But again: let’s get real; you don’t support Trump unless you’re a racist on some level. These guys are going to deny it in this forum–of course they’re going to!–but you’re either being naive or you have an agenda if you’re saying you believe them.


#30

Dave is disseminating urban myths, as usual. Try and find verification of his claims anywhere. All I managed to find was this:

Down the street, Agri was collapsing, too. Most of the work force was in jail or had left town. In the best of circumstances, meatpacking is bloody, exhausting and dangerous work. It draws the desperate: undocumented immigrants, refugees with limited English skills and a smattering of U.S. citizens thin on luck. Agri’s conditions were worse than most. About 75 percent of its workers — some of them minors — were undocumented, and many earned only $6 to $7 an hour, often without overtime. Female workers reported being sexually assaulted by managers, and workplace accidents were not uncommon, including broken bones, eye injuries, hearing loss and grisly mishaps that resulted in amputations.

The raid itself did nothing to improve conditions. In subsequent days, one Iowa job agency, Labor Ready, provided 150 replacement employees for Agri, then pulled them out about a week later, complaining that the plant was unsafe. A group of Native Americans from Nebraska and students from Kyrgyzstan also quit shortly after starting. Mysterious ads — Agri officials denied placing them — appeared in newspapers and on telephone poles in Guatemala City, pitching meatpacking jobs for $8.50 an hour in Postville, “a technologically developed town with a friendly atmosphere, pretty green areas, public schools and family recreation areas.”

Then, in one of its most desperate moves, Agri recruited 170 people from the Micronesian island of Palau — whose status as a former U.S. protectorate means its citizens can work legally in the United States. In September 2008, the Palauans traveled 72 hours and 8,000 miles on planes and buses before arriving in Postville with little more than flip-flops and brightly colored shorts and tops.

Meanwhile, Agri hired other job agencies that recruited Somali refugees from Minnesota and bused in homeless people from Texas, with promises of a hiring bonus and a month of free housing. The once-quiet town entered its “inner-city, homeless phase,” Seibert said. The Postville police chief added more officers — the department was used to dealing with stray animals, locked cars and bar brawls — to the Friday and Saturday night shifts. Arrests went up during the fall and winter of 2008. Drug problems spiked. There was a double stabbing downtown.


#31

[quote=“J.Anderson, post:28, topic:48140”]
RWNJ, wake me up when Trump is placing stress on the need to cut down on “job taking” Asian and European immigrants. Trump focuses on two heavily maligned racial groups (Hispanics and Arabs) for a reason: because it speaks to the bigotry of many conservatives (it’s also no innocent mistake that Trump just happens to be gaining huge support among white supremacist groups). I’m not interested in debating the personal psychology of anyone (though, if I had to place money on it, I’d bet that, in their hearts of hearts, the Trump supporters on this thread support him in part because of their racist beliefs); if your behavior is racist (e.g. supporting a candidate with racist positions and attitudes), then that makes you a racist, regardless of your other psychologies or reasons for voting for him.
[/quote]Asian and European immigrants do not come to America in vast numbers “taking jobs from good hard-working Americans who cannot find jobs because the Mexicans took them.” Mexicans do come to America in vast numbers. It’s not surprising, with the economic illiteracy so rampant in our nation, that folks believe the Mexicans took their jobs.

Your whole post addresses the psychology of Trump supporters.

I won’t bet on Trump supporters’ heart of hearts supporting him for racist reasons. I bet on it being over fear of a tangibly large group of illegal immigrants and a religion that produces large numbers of killers. I won’t presume that is simply because these particular people are brown.

[quote=“J.Anderson, post:28, topic:48140”]
Think about it like this: even if a German voted Hitler into power because they really loved his ideas on reformed socialism, they’re still a racist by the very fact of voting for a racist with racist policy proposals. Agree?
[/quote]No doubt, some people did, and they’re responsible for Hitler. Those people probably didn’t realize where things were headed, and they regretted it afterward. I couldn’t begin to guess what percentages.

[quote=“J.Anderson, post:29, topic:48140”]
Let’s not even intellectualize it, and just get real. We all know what most conservatives like Trump voters tend to say about minorities when they have a few beers in them. Over Christmas with the in-laws, almost all Trump supporters, it was non-stop blatantly racist conversation about Mexicans. Now, if those same people, instead of having drinks in private, were here on this public forum, they’d surely deny to their last breath that they’ve ever had a racist thought in their lives. But again: let’s get real; you don’t support Trump unless you’re a racist on some level. These guys are going to deny it in this forum–of course they’re going to!–but you’re either being naive or you have an agenda if you’re saying you believe them.
[/quote]It sure could be, but I haven’t had that experience. We certainly don’t have the ability to determine if the folks here at RO are lying to us about their racism. I don’t actually know any Trump supporters that well; and the few folks I know who might vote for him in the end because Hillary or Bernie do not lead such a double life with their values. I’ve got some Facebook friends, acquaintances, who might be borderline in Facebook land. The anecdotal evidence here is anecdotal. We can produce all kinds of different people bringing all kinds of different reasons to the table, with and without racist qualities. I wouldn’t want to generalize this way about Trump supporters any more than I want to generalize about philosophers, liberals or conservatives.

Probably. I don’t intend to turn J.'s thread into an illegal immigration thread, and I don’t intend to go round and round over it. It seems a pointless exercise because “facts” like these. On the surface, it seems to make sense, like tariffs and protecting American jobs. My point is that people believe this is the way of things, and their response to Trump and politics is rooted in that belief.


#32

1 2 3 Wake up!

Trump Takes Aim at H1B Visas | NBC Bay Area

http://dcinno.streetwise.co/2015/10/29/h1b-gop-debate-trump-rubio-tech-immigration-policy/

By the way, by your twisted and perverted logic everyone who supported the re-election of Obama in 2012 was either a communist or a communist sympathizer since CPUSA endorsed him.


#33

Oh, BS, CJ. You take the NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE as “authoritative?” This is the same bunch that published those photoshopped pix from AP of American soldiers urinating on dead Iraqis that were proven phony within a week of publication–and the NYT has NEVER apologized or admitted they were phony. Secondly, the story is NOT “urban legend.” I have a life-long friend who lives in Iowa who was one of those who applied for a job after the story broke of the ICE raid. He wasn’t hired, but he said they were offering him and other applicants $10.50/hour plus benefits such as health care, time-and-a-half for overtime and a 401k.


#34

I’m not a Trump supporter, but I find it VERY difficult to believe that a substantial number of his supporters are so because of some concept of “racism.” Trump is currently garnering something like 30% support among American blacks, so THEY must be racists, too, by what passes for your “logic.” He opposes Mexican illegals because THEY comprise the bulk of illegals sneaking across our southern borders and THEY are the ones taking jobs in the construction, hospitality and yard and garden maintenance industry–not to mention in restaurants and food service. It doesn’t have anything to do with “race.” He opposes Arabs being given access to the U.S. because over the past 20 years, with only one exception, all incidents of terrorism in the US has been committed BY Muslim men and women and there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to predetermine which Muslim immigrant is or is not a potential terrorist. Until there IS such a way, it makes sense to obstruct immigration by ANY Muslim.


#35

I read some of this guys’ past posts. He’s an agitator for the sake of agitating.


#36

He agitates on certain subjects; usually religious (or with religious implications, as is the case with abortion).


#37

Aww for Pete’s sake. Who gives a rat’s hind end. This nit-picking over tweets and stuff is getting tedious.

Good post.

Immigrants and Illegal Aliens are two different things. I have no problem with Asian or European or Mexican immigrants getting a job. It’s the illegal aliens that need to go. This mushing together of immigrants and illegal aliens as if they are the same thing is part of what is screwing up the whole conversation on the issue.

Wake me up when Asians and Europeans start pouring over the Rio Grande illegally.


#38

RWNJ: (post #31)

Mexicans do come to America in vast numbers. It’s not surprising, with the economic illiteracy so rampant in our nation, that folks believe the Mexicans took their jobs.

I beg your pardon?


#39

Remember the chicken processing plant in Georgia that was closed down because all its employees were illegals? Started back up in no time at all with citizens and/or legal immigrants. It was one of those jobs that “no American would take.”


#40

I’m thinking that people here already know how raw with anger I get when people post such ignorance that "illegals don’t take our jobs."
I don’t know what angers me more; the sheer ignorance, or the ambivalence towards so many of us whose livelihoods were totally ruined.
The icing on the cake is being called “economically illiterate” for knowing what I’ve witnessed right before my eyes.
The extra sprinkles on that icing comes in the form of being called “greedy” when it’s their ignorance that has no comprehension of what “under-cutting” means.