Mandela and MLK Jr.

Ok, I must say upfront that I am ignorant on both of these issues. That is why I am asking the questions here. I was told that MLK Jr. was a plagarist and a womanizer. Does anyone know if this is true or if it is just made up stuff to discredit him?

I also heard/read somewhere that Nelson Mandela is a communist and was put in prison for legitimate crimes he had committed. Are these true? I hate googling these questions because I usually wind up with either extreme. What I would like is the truth about both of these men.

I have heard neither of those stories. I guess they could conceivably be true but I wouldn’t bet on it. They sound like rumors made up to discredit both men. I am relatively certain that if Nelson Mandela was a communist the United States and other international governments would not engage in such friendly dealings with South Africa, and Mandela would likely not be glorified to the extent that he is. And being communist is a rather hard thing to keep secret, especially when you’re in a position of political power. Similarly, I’m sure that if MLK was a plagiarizer it would have been discovered years ago - someone would have stepped forward, and that is not a story the national news media could ignore. Accusations about his habits with women are, of course, much harder to prove or disprove. I personally will choose to continue to celebrate MLK for what he did for blacks and the Civil Rights Movement until it is irrevocably proven that he engaged in immoral behavior (and even if this is true, he still deserves to be celebrated for what he did right during his life).

Mandela was a communist and a terrorist. He was in prison because he was in charge of the armed wing of the ANC, which committed terrorism against innocent whites. He was friends with the likes of Castro, Gaddafi, and Arafat.

New Evidence Shows Mandela Was Senior Communist Party Member

That seems to indicate that he was indeed a member of the Communist Party. However, it doesn’t seem that that reflects badly on him, as the historian notes that “it’s fair to say he wasn’t a real convert, it was just an opportunist thing.” Evidently he was just playing realpolitik. As an Ottawa Sun article (Nelson Mandela) notes “Mandela appears to have joined the SACP more for its political connections than its ideas.”

Well, I personally think that if any politician or political leader aligns him/herself with the communist party or any other anti-democratic, radical left-wing, or marxist organization just as an “opportunist” thing, to me, is by far worse than joining a group because one believes in the tenets of that organization. It indicates a disreputable and an unprincipled mentality. It says about that person that he/she is a self-seeker and is interested only in the “bottom line” whatever that is. As I have said many times before, we have become a nation of liars–and it seems that we not only are a nation of liars, but those to whom we look up to or attach the “hero” label are also pathological liars as well.

Unprincipled opportunist? Sounds like Mitt Romney to me :wink:

I agree that realpolitik is not a very honorable way of achieving a goal, but let’s remember the honorable cause that Mandela was fighting for.

Maybe so, but considering that the apartheid regime that they were fighting against was rotten to the core (and peaceful protests probably wouldn’t worked as they did in the American South), it was probably just a matter of fighting fire with fire.

You just called one of the greatest human rights activists in the world a “self-seeker”! Is this real life? He freed people from oppression and tyranny. If I could be half the man he was then I’ll consider my life a success.

Then I’m not impressed with your goals or your definition of “success.”

The end does not justify the means…remember that? We cannot justify our evil actions on what good may or may not come about as a result of those evil actions. That mentality is what has gotten our country in the rotting state it is in right now. “I will kill this living human being in my womb because it MAY have Down’s Syndrome…I can’t afford a child right now…my life will be hindered by having a baby…” and on it goes. Now, having said that, there are extreme situation which justify actions which would, under normal conditions, be considered evil. Such as, killing someone who is trying to kill you; those kinds of situations. But, to join a group or align one’s self with an evil organization just because it somehow appeases others or enhances your situation is NOT one of those situations. Our country has slid so far down the relativistic slippery slope that there is practically no way back up. And this is what we are imparting to our school children every day…that it is ok to lie, cheat, steal, murder, and abuse as long as they have a good reason for it. Appalling…absolutely appalling.

Hey FC, that’s fine and doesn’t surprise me. But thanks for letting me know how you feel. Anything else you care to share buddy?

Maybe you should take a look at corporations that give people health problems and exploit child labor. That’s just as evil as joining a communist party (I won’t agree that it’s evil).

Sorry I don’t consider communists evil. It’s a very large group of people to consider evil. You all have been indoctrinated by the red scare BS. Just as you have been about the Muslim=terrorist BS.

We are not going to agree on any of this. If you consider Nelson Mandela evil then okay that’s your opinion. But he saved people from oppression and human rights abuses. I challenge you to read Kaffir Boy and get a first hand read about Apartheid.

I know people who lived in South Africa at the time of Mandela. I think they had left at the time he “took over.” Except the one daughter, and she and her husband were virtually forced to flee the country because they were white. And the apartheid issue wasn’t nearly as bad as the media made it. As I said, people I know (actually, shirt-tail relatives) were living there. And, yes, Mandela was guilty of real crimes.

Yet, he is hailed as a hero. Adults were taught that he was/is a hero. There is a saying by either Kruschev, Marx or Lenin that if you tell a lie often enough, it is believed. The important part is to start the lie out as small and insignificant. By the time the population has it firmly ingrained as fact, then move on to bigger lies…

He is guilty and served time in prison for it. Apartheid was one of the most horrible things to happen on this Earth. Yeah, I agree that it’s unfortunate the way whites were treated in Africa after colonialism and white rule ended. Especially since most of them considered Africa their home.

Serving time in prison doesn’t necessarily purge one’s guilt. Many a thief has been released from prison with new and “better” knowledge of how to be a successful thief - with no intention of trying. I think that’s pretty much what Mandela did. He just learned to be a better “thief.” But not only that, ignorant people throughout the world bought his “victim” status. And what is it about this colonialism? The whites were in South America before the blacks. There were a few Hottentots there, but they were already dying out. The blacks came down from the North, and much like the Palestinians in Israel, thought they could steal everything from the whites and without doing anything, live like the whites they stole from had been living. Apartheid was originally not an act to keep the blacks down - it was originally an agreement between the two peoples to keep them from slaughtering each other. But the whites eventually gained pretty much totally power, because of their advanced civilization. They knew they had to work to keep what they had. Too much of the black leadership did not understand this, so they remained with their backward culture, and became subservient to the whites. I don’t know when or how it happened that it happened that the whites completely (or almost completely) dominated the blacks, but it was almost bound to happen. Perhaps if they had put themselves out to educate the blacks (if they were amenable to it), things would have turned out differently. I don’t know enough about the intervening times between the original clash and the point at which the blacks pretty much took over. There had to be some education, of course; they couldn’t have done it otherwise. But trust was never developed, from either side, apparently.

Don’t ask me for links, I learned most of this info long before Al Gore invented the internet (and, contrary to popular belief, all the facts in the world are not on the internet), and don’t know where I got it. Except about the Hottentots, a shirt-tail relative who lived in South Africa for many years told me that one.


You just basically quoted the propaganda that whites used in schools during apartheid. I also didn’t realize that being a smarter person means you can exploit others. Says a lot…

I’m not going to continue this conversation cause you’re making me a little sick to my stomach.

How about people who lived in S. Africa when Mandela took over? Actually, that didn’t come from them (although a great deal of my current knowledge about SA did), and I never heard it in school, either!

Like I said, I’m done.