Medical Child Abuse Or Medical Kidnapping?

Medical Child Abuse Or Medical Kidnapping?
by RHONDA ROBINSON
pjmedia.com/lifestyle
2014/12/06

The bill Rep. Wilson introduced today states that a parent cannot be charged with Medical Child Abuse for disagreeing with medical advice and choosing treatment of another doctor. Yeah. We’re there.

You might remember the well publicized ordeal of Justina Pelletier. It seemed like a fluke of injustice, an isolated case. … rather than receiving discharge papers, parents were charged with “Medical Child Abuse” the new term that has replaced Munchausen by Proxy (MSbP). Mr. Pelletier was surrounded by agents of the Massachusetts Department of Children and Families (DCF), hospital security and ushered off the premises– Justina became a ward of the state for 16 months and her health deteriorated.

Michelle Rider, the 34-year-old registered nurse and single mother of Isaiah Rider … told PJ Lifestyle just why we have a hard time accepting this is happening.

[quote]“We are taught that hospitals are safe, that doctors are safe, and DCFS intervenes when intervention is needed. So when we accept the fact that this is really happening– we are accepting that we are not safe, and our children are not safe.”

Much of Isaiah’s childhood was spent in the hospital. … born with the genetic condition Neurofibromatosis, (NF1) his seemingly endless cycles of hospitalizations began at the age of six with a fractured leg. Annual surgeries became part of the rhythm of their lives. With rods put in and taken out of his leg, enduring multiple complications, suffering a damaged growth plate, and then a foot that stopped growing, Isaiah was left with a painful and deformed limb.

By the age of age 15 Isaiah was ready to do whatever it took to live a normal, and pain-free life. According to his doctors, this required a below the knee amputation.

Isaiah was excited at the thought of being able to run again. His ongoing care had come from Children’s Mercy Hospital in Kansas City, where Isaiah and Michelle also went to classes to prepare them for life after the amputation. …

… They couldn’t have prepared for what came next.[/quote]
This case is, sadly, not unique except in the specifics of the disease (unusual/rare diseases seem to be a common denominator in many of the cases I’ve heard of) and degree of trauma suffered by the child as a result of doctors’ pride, the way mandatory reporting laws are often written, and social workers. Mandatory reporting laws, which obligate doctors (among others) to report possible child abuse define “possible” flexibly, and forbid mandatory reporters to investigate what they noticed or otherwise use their judgment. Too often in practice, and sometimes in court, CPS/DSS/etc. social workers act as investigator, prosecutor, jury, judge, and executioner. In at least one court case a DSS social worker tried to argue that DSS social workers are not subject to the 4 Amendment (even the 9th Circus Court didn’t buy that!).

To be clear, there are some good and overworked people in government social services (the overworked ones are probably picking some of the slack of the promotion-seeking arrogant ones!). There are enough arrogant and tyrannous CPS/DSS/etc. social workers “out there” to make a lot of families miserable.

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Relatives of ours had a brush with something like this. Their daughter had been in Children’s Hospital in Pittsburgh for months following a bone marrow transplant. They had taken her home with the intent of seeing to her continued care at their local hospital. The doctor or doctors there said she needed to be back at Children’s, and when they balked, the doctor(s) threatened to sic the local CYS/CPS/CFS or whatever the alphabet soup name is in their state.

Wow! I thought one of RO’s more liberal-inclined members would try to diminish this case as rare to the point of being unique or some such dismissive line. Maybe they feared The Wrath of ConLib … or maybe they realized that this case is far from unique:

http://www.republicanoperative.com/forums/f47/when-government-takes-your-children-44539/

Families in the News - Parentalrights.org - Protecting Children by Empowering Parents*

This Mom Checked Her Newborn Out of the Hospital Early, The Next Day Her Baby Was Taken Away - Redbook

Local King 5 News Reports on Rengo Family Children being Medically Kidnapped

Boy Removed from Family – Father Jailed Over Lyme Disease Disagreement

Child with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome taken from Loving Family by Doctors

I know that someone on this site - I don’t remember who, or if said person is still a member - once suggested ConLib of was guilty of child abuse himself, because of his distrust of CPS - or whatever it’s called in a given area.

That libelous claim came from CactusJack. He was NEVER held accountable for it and if he was, he NEVER apologized. He also made similar blanket claims toward many other RO members due to their defense of spanking. This is why I have that libelous RO member on ignore.

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As can be seen at the bottom of his post, ConLib edited it a little over an hour after posting it, deleting two sentences. Because of the claim made in one of the sentences, “***I was told to not mention this again in the open forum or, at least, not remind that member of his libelous statements,***” was seen by an unknown number of RO members in that hour, I am going to respond to it.

This statement @Conservative Libertarian posted is false. ConLib was told to cease bringing up his old grievance against CJ in threads unrelated to child abuse.

I think it was someone other than CJ that made the statement that I am referring to, because I have had CJ on ignore since before that - I’m pretty sure.

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Thanks Pete. I made that statement, re-read it later and edited it out due to the inaccuracy. However, this is not the first time that you have held such self-edits against me in the open forum. From now on, I will no longer edit since I will still be called a liar even though I corrected the info. I request that you quit stalking me for the purpose of calling me a liar even after I self-edits inaccurate info. You have only bolstered your bad reputation with such an action.

Aw, come on, CL - Pete is not stalking you - he started this thread, remember, and he even mentioned you favorably in it.

No surprise there. We have had many liberal/commie/democrat nanny - states over the past 9 years that throw out such libelous claims with impunity.

Who else does he call a liar after they self-edit inaccurate info? Did he really have to do that? I don’t care who he is. I don’t take that kind of stupid crap from anyone. It also meets the definition of stalking that was applied to me.

It took you an hour to realize the claim was false?

From now on, I will no longer edit since I will still be called a liar even though I corrected the info.

Try re-reading my comment. I did not call you a liar. I carefully chose the word “false” - as opposed to “falsehood” or “lie” - to avoid attributing any motive to your post. As I pointed out in my post, your false claim was viewable in this thread for over an hour, and I set the record straight for anyone who may have seen it.

I request that you quit stalking me for the purpose of calling me a liar even after I self-edits inaccurate info.

I admire the efficiency of this sentence. It makes two false accusations.

do not “stalk” you on RO, for any reason. IF you feel that way, the problem is with your feeling.

I did not in this thread call you a liar.

You have only bolstered your bad reputation with such an action.[/QUOTE]

I have a “bad reputation”? With whom? Other than, judging by your past posts, with you. My “question” was rhetorical. But regardless of whom you might or might not list, I really do not care. That’s your - and if there is more than you - their problem.

[QUOTE=Conservative Libertarian;705850]Who else does he call a liar after they self-edit inaccurate info?

The reason was given in my post of which you have complained. And I did not call you a liar.

[quote]Did he really have to do that?

I coreected a possible false impression that your post may have created with any who may have read it. So, yes, in my judgment, setting the record straight about the false information that was viewable in this thread was appropriate.

I don’t care who he is. I don’t take that kind of stupid crap from anyone.

If you don’t like false information you’ve posted publicly being publicly corrected, the solution is simple Don’t post false information.

It also meets the definition of stalking that was applied to me.

This was answered and demonstrated to have been a true statement - made in an Infraction issued to you, not in a public post - months ago. Try (re-)reading those posts in that “Introduce Yourself” forum posts.

[QUOTE=PeteS in CA;705860][QUOTE=Conservative Libertarian;705850]Who else does he call a liar after they self-edit inaccurate info?

The reason was given in my post of which you have complained. And I did not call you a liar.

I coreected a possible false impression that your post may have created with any who may have read it. So, yes, in my judgment, setting the record straight about the false information that was viewable in this thread was appropriate.

If you don’t like false information you’ve posted publicly being publicly corrected, the solution is simple Don’t post false information.

This was answered and demonstrated to have been a true statement - made in an Infraction issued to you, not in a public post - months ago. Try (re-)reading those posts in that “Introduce Yourself” forum posts.

Again, I have not seen you do that with anyone else in the open forum. No matter how you tried to dance around it, claiming that a statement is false implies that I lied. In your post, it also implied that I may have been urged to correct it by yourself. No one is perfect, except yourself obviously. I corrected it my self and you claimed that one unknown reader viewed it before I corrected my mistake and then FEELed compelled to tell everyone that it was a lie. Quit STALKING me!

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What are you implying?

You may find it hard to believe but, I do have other things to do that are more important that worrying about an overzealous mod that stalks certain RO members. I noticed it when I was able to get back to it and corrected it. If that doesn’t meet your criteria, that’s just too bad.

PS. Did I edit this one fast enough for you?

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CL, I think you’re a good guy, and have contributed a lot of good on this forum, but if you continue to keep this chip on your shoulder until you get banned, I’m afraid I won’t have a lot of sympathy for you. I think a lot of us agree with you about CJ, but you are hurting yourself more than the mods and/or any other member you might have a beef with. I pass up a lot of stuff rather than make an issue of it, even though it often “burns” me to allow it. That’s what the ignore list is for. If you’d just use that, and ignore the ignorant, you wouldn’t have a problem with the mods.

I’ve not seen it either, because it is the first time I can remember ever having done so. Your posting a false accusation against RO Moderators, leaving it viewable for over an hour, and then editing it was unique in my experience, so any response to such a post would, by definition, be unique. But my post being unique falsifies your claim that I am “stalking” you. “Stalking” is an ongoing series of actions; my response to your pre-edit post was a single and unique response (to a unique situation). “Stalking” cannot, by definition, be a single, unique, action. Your attempt to twist and magnify my post into something it could not have been was and remains oxymoronic.

No dancing involved, ConLib. “Lie”, “False”, and “Mistake” are not perfect synonyms. “Lie” and “Mistake” entail assumptions about motives and intent. “False” does not: I chose “False” because I do not know what you were thinking when you posted your false claim and I was not going to speculate.

Your wording is unclear. If you are speculating that my purpose in pointing out the oddity of it taking you an hour to realize that your claim was false and edit it was to imply anything particular, your speculation would be incorrect.

If you are referring to my ongoing responses to your posts, you are addressing them to me. Was I supposed to ignore you? As for my response to your edited post, I already pointed out above that one action cannot constitute stalking.

I pointed out the oddity that it took you an hour to realize your claim against RO Moderation was false, and to edit it. Beyond that, I don’t know whether you took a nap, had a power outage, or …

[quote=Conservative Libertarian]You may find it hard to believe but, I do have other things to do that are more important that worrying about an overzealous mod that stalks certain RO members.[quote]

You have a funny way of focusing on those “other things to do that are more important”.

Unlike you, I am able to review RO Mods’ actions, which generate threads in the Mods’ forum. In particular, the number of Warnings and Infractions I’ve issued in the past year is not large. Hardly over-zealous! I am simply enforcing the rules, ConLib. If you don’t like those rules, get the owner of this site, JohnGalt, to change them. As JohnGalt and I have pointed out on a couple of occasions, Warnings and Infractions are not issued on RO with philosophical favoritism. So a good percentage of those that I have issued have been to liberals.

You seem to style yourself, ConLib, as speaking for or of “certain RO member***s***”, claiming I have been stalking them. Please name them. Or let them self-identify. In turn, I will search through the Mods forum and state how many Warnings and/or Infractions they have received from me in the past year. Go ahead ConLib and/or those of/for whom ConLib seems to speak. Stop the FUD tactics and let ConLib’s vague and sinister claims be fact-checked!

[QUOTE=PeteS in CA;705971]I’ve not seen it either, because it is the first time I can remember ever having done so. Your posting a false accusation against RO Moderators, leaving it viewable for over an hour, and then editing it was unique in my experience, so any response to such a post would, by definition, be unique. But my post being unique falsifies your claim that I am “stalking” you. “Stalking” is an ongoing series of actions; my response to your pre-edit post was a single and unique response (to a unique situation). “Stalking” cannot, by definition, be a single, unique, action. Your attempt to twist and magnify my post into something it could not have been was and remains oxymoronic.

No dancing involved, ConLib. “Lie”, “False”, and “Mistake” are not perfect synonyms. “Lie” and “Mistake” entail assumptions about motives and intent. “False” does not: I chose “False” because I do not know what you were thinking when you posted your false claim and I was not going to speculate.

Your wording is unclear. If you are speculating that my purpose in pointing out the oddity of it taking you an hour to realize that your claim was false and edit it was to imply anything particular, your speculation would be incorrect.

If you are referring to my ongoing responses to your posts, you are addressing them to me. Was I supposed to ignore you? As for my response to your edited post, I already pointed out above that one action cannot constitute stalking.

I pointed out the oddity that it took you an hour to realize your claim against RO Moderation was false, and to edit it. Beyond that, I don’t know whether you took a nap, had a power outage, or …

[quote=Conservative Libertarian]You may find it hard to believe but, I do have other things to do that are more important that worrying about an overzealous mod that stalks certain RO members.

You have a funny way of focusing on those “other things to do that are more important”.

Unlike you, I am able to review RO Mods’ actions, which generate threads in the Mods’ forum. In particular, the number of Warnings and Infractions I’ve issued in the past year is not large. Hardly over-zealous! I am simply enforcing the rules, ConLib. If you don’t like those rules, get the owner of this site, JohnGalt, to change them. As JohnGalt and I have pointed out on a couple of occasions, Warnings and Infractions are not issued on RO with philosophical favoritism. So a good percentage of those that I have issued have been to liberals.

You seem to style yourself, ConLib, as speaking for or of “certain RO member***s***”, claiming I have been stalking them. Please name them. Or let them self-identify. In turn, I will search through the Mods forum and state how many Warnings and/or Infractions they have received from me in the past year. Go ahead ConLib and/or those of/for whom ConLib seems to speak. Stop the FUD tactics and let ConLib’s vague and sinister claims be fact-checked!

I never claimed that you stalked other members. That is a bald faced lie. You have openly chastised me for pre-edit ed posts before. Therefore it is not as unique as you claim. Apparently, my truthful reason for the delay is not believed by you. Again, implying me to be a liar. Therefore, your fixation on the hour that it took for my edit is just that. It is a fixation and further evidence of stalking. It stinks when your own criteria applies to yourself, huh? Yes, you are dancing. You got caught and are dancing in way to shift blame and imply purposeful wrong - doing on my part.

Pete, the only reason I came back was because people that I knew here years before you or Galt came around and made RO the laughing stock amongst Conservative forums. You would be surprised how many RO members actually put up with your crap just so they can stay in touch with people that they know as like. Some of us communicate outside of this forum where you cannot read or restrict our PMs. Yes, it is known that such things occur. Info has been planted via them that later came out via yourself. You took the bait. Your next move will most likely be a parting and libelous post and closing the thread. That is your MO when you get nailed by the truth.
I
I will leave it at that and let you either chew on it or go into your typical slander campaign that you have shown toward me via your passive aggressive I’ve stalking. Being a mod and being able to control the narrative does have its advantages. Keep up the good work.

I really don’t care if I get banned. I stopped caring a long time ago. If exposing a Mods questionable activities makes that happen, then I’m alright with that. If there is no accountability amongst the mods, shame on RO.

Here, ConLib, let me refresh your memory; I’ll even bold-face the relevant clause to help you see what I was referring to:

So your claim that I lied is the “bald faced lie”. And a bold-faced lie as well.

Refresh my memory, ConLib. Link where I called out a pre-edit version of one of your posts. You can’t, because I cannot see the pre-edit versions of posts unless some one has Reported it. Which is how I was able to quote what you later deleted. IOW, during that hour before you edited your post, at least one RO member saw and Reported it. OTOH, I have commented on posts - by several members on multiple occasions - after those posts were deleted by those members. Only Moderators or JG can permanently delete a post. That is different from what I did in post post of which you complain.

Your comment assumes too much, more than is fact.

A single event cannot be “stalking”, ConLib. And the only reasons I have mentioned that one-hour time period are the fact that your post was seen - and Reported to the Mods forum - during that time and it seems odd to me that it took you over an hour to realize your post made a false claim and then decide to edit it. Didn’t you think about the accuracy of the claim before posting it? I checked what had been said to you in Warnings and Infractions prior to posting my response.

Blah, blah, blah … woof, woof, woof. You haven’t landed a single verbal blow yet, ConLib.

RO is a “laughing stock amongst Conservative forums”? Where? Name names. Post links. I post as a regular member on 3 other conservative forums, though not using “PeteS in CA” as my forum name. I have made known to staff members of each of those forums three things: my name here; that I am a Mod here; that I was posting there as a contributor, not to poach members. In none of those forums have the staff responded to me negatively, nor made remarks about RO.

Sorry to have to remind you of this, ConLib, but as a Moderator I cannot restrict your or anyone else’s PM privileges, other than what happens as the consequence of being in Moderation or being banned. Nor can I read anyone’s PMs other than my own. As far as I know, neither can JG. So I don’t know what bait you imagine I took. Maybe your “bait” was something you or the other person(s) had mentioned publicly and I happened to have seen. Or maybe it was some “secret” that was so obvious that even I had figured it out privately and independently. Whatever happened - if anything at all - I cannot read your PMs, nor those of any person other than my own. You can confirm all that with RwNj, FC, Dn, or JG. Or if you distrust them you can confirm that with the staff of any discussion forum you participate on that uses vBulletin SW. IIRC, CJ has considerable experience administering vBulletin forums … why not ask him? EDIT: Or you could read it on vBulletin’s own website. This site’s code has not been altered, and I have zero SQL or PHP skills.

If that is my “MO”, link where I’ve done that before.

If that is my “MO”, link where I’ve done that before.

That is just sad delusional nonsense.

Also, this is the second post to this thread since you predicted I would close it, ConLib, because this thread is not closed. How is that?