My great fear with Obama Care repeal and replace ...


#1

is that NOTHING will get done because the astro turf demonstations at the Republcian townhalls plus The Freedom Caucus will make it so no repeal and replace bill will get passed. The end will be what Obama and the Democrats have wanted from the beginning … government run, “single payer” heath care. That will take us down the road of death pannels and situations where you won’t even be allowed to spend your own money for health care.

So if Rand Paul and company keep it up, we will be able to say they were just as big of a supporters of Obama Care as Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the socialists who run the Democrat Party. They will have contributed to the establishment of socialized medicine in America.

I understand that Paul and co. are not pleased with what’s on the table. But the thing to do is the get the ball rolling to stop single payer and get back to market based solutions. Obama Care was built to fail, and that’s what it’s doing. The question is what will we get done before it fails and forces the issue?


#2

What about the new plan slows down the failure of the healthcare market and eventual nationalization of healthcare? What do you think is the substantive difference between Obamacare and Ryancare? Are you really going to blame the Freedom Caucus for what the Democrats do and want to do? What about the anti-capitalist Republicans running the show and proposing that travesty of a repeal?

If Republicans wanted they have the numbers to repeal Obamacare and allow free-market healthcare markets to flourish. They literally have the power to do the things they’ve said they’ve wanted to do for years but couldn’t because Democrats ran the show. Republicans won’t because the vast majority of them have become as socialist as their Democrat kin. They have no excuse any more and blaming Rand Paul, Justin Amash and company for standing up to socialist legislation is sad.


#3

Okay, let’s it have your way.

One of your heroes, Mike Lee, is calling for immediate repeal with no immediate replace, and a fix down the road. On the surface I could support that, but I know what the Democrat Party controlled media will do with it.

A couple days ago a woman got up in one of the Republican town halls and stated that she had stage 4 cancer, her treatment cost $70,000 and that she would be dead if it were not for Obama Care. If Obama Care were to be repealed she would die.

It is almost impossible to mount an argument against a story like that, and the news media will look for those stories and play them to the hilt. They will have body counts of every night about how many people have died because Obama Care had been repealed. Trust me. Back during the Iraq War, CBS News held an opening story celebration when the 3,000th service man had died in Iraq. It was a great way to blame Bush 43 and keep the political hate wagon rolling. I can see Scott Pelly now standing in front of a tombstone with body count mounting. It will make what should be Republican gains in 2018 dying hope.

We have to deal with political reality. Obama Care created a new entitlement. It is impossible to reverse most of these programs once they are in place. The best you can hope for is to wean the public off of them with a multistep approach, and show that market forces can work.

You can sit in your far right ivory tower and throw acid down on the people who are trying to stop socialism, or you can take a breath and think about the political realities. I hope that people like Rand Paul can do that. If they don’t they will be just as responsible for the nationalization of the medical system as the Democrats.


#4

I don’t know who Mike Lee is. I am not far right. (Just looked up Mike Lee. On the surface, he seems like someone who might be all right. I’ll reserve judgment till I know more about him though. I do really like Justin Amash a lot these days.)

Addressed this in the other thread, but what I’m reading here seems to be that Republicans need to keep the Democrat dream alive in order to ensure they beat Democrats in the next election. Republicans won. Republicans ought to act like Republicans. This is not a multi-step approach. It’s a replacement that replaces a mandate and tax credit with a tax credit and no fines. It will have to rely even more heavily on existing revenues to prop up a system that cannot remotely pay for itself. It will literally be worse and in no way is this a step the other direction.

Instant repeal may be very difficult from a practical standpoint. That’s how the all-powerful state holds us hostage. I’m likely to lose my health insurance if we repealed today. The market would be in a complete state of crazy. Something market-based would emerge, but who knows how long it would take. But you and the Republican politicians apparently fear the potential loss of life and what the media will say so much that you will go along with basically the same exact thing you’ve supposedly opposed when the opportunity to do something about it arrives. Speaking of which, what candidate won an election where the media truly seemed aligned against him, media that were convinced he had lost long before the election? The only question for the media was how large would be the landslide? Republicans didn’t fear the media in November. Republicans hated the media, and the media seemed to return the favor. The media and the Democrats still lost.

We really should incrementally move away from Obamacare instead of embracing it just because Team R reintroduced the same abomination. You can’t show that market forces work when you continue to work against the market forces. Team R should act like they actually won.


#5

The Trump victory looked big in the Electoral College, but he lost the popular vote mostly because of New York and California. We are really hanging on by a thread because many people didn’t like Obama and they dispised Hillary. That’s how we won.

The colleges are poisoning the minds of the youth with their indoctration degress. Ditto for the public schools. I don’t see how you can sell the total conservative adgenda to those people ever.

I don’t think that Trump is going to get anything though Congress. The Democrats, except for a few who come from the coal producing states who buck the party line now and then, vote in a block. The are like the old Communist Party. There is not room for disagreement among the Democrats. As long as the 60 vote for cloture rule stays in the Senate, nothing will get done unless we win a super majority in 2018.


#6

Then that is simple: A single Bill: Allow all healthcare insurances companies to sell across state lines or words to that effect. Do that and REVOLUTIONIZE the healthcare industry TODAY!

Every wonder who/why they were STOPPED from selling across state lines? Think CONGRESS!


#7

I understand the fear. I also think that for Republicans to mean anything, they must offer something substantively different from the Democrats. But if a vote for a Republican means we just do Democrat, then there’s no reason to vote Republican or vote at all. I’m all for incrementally rolling back this system, but it should actually be something that begins rolling it back. Above, 17Oak suggests a very popular change Republicans could bring to the table. it would win votes. Republicans and others all over the place are saying the same thing. Why aren’t national Republicans proposing this?


#8

This isn’t a REAL issue…political “reality” or not. We need to pass the identical bill that passed both houses of Congress last year, ELIMINATING Obamacare…period. On the same day, pass a bill that takes the federal government OUT of the health-care system except for Medicare which most of today’s users paid into for their entire adult lives. I can find NOTHING in the Constitution giving the feds authority over healthcare, education, the environment, banking, science, the arts or the “humanities,” yet we are ALL paying for these things THROUGH the federal government–after our money has been filtered BY these unconstitutional agencies Congress has allowed to CONTROL them. Prior to Medicaid, I don’t recall a single American dying in the streets due to lack of access to health care…and I WAS paying attention.


#9

The left claims it under the “provide for the… general welfare” clause in Article I, Section 8. But all this stuff isn’t “general welfare;” it’s quite specific.


#10

**

Under that basis, ALL functions of society can be and will be assumed by the Govt.

Fact is the govt is run by the shadow govt, not by Congress or the POTUS. The Shadow govt is the Sr civil service workers, GS 12 and above. They are protected by the most powerful union in the WORLD.

There was a GS 14 that worked in my office by not for me, he worked for a full Col. The guy was strictly a 8-5 workers, at 5 he left, no matter what was on his desk to be actioned. He was slow to do anything and his work was poor at best. Finally over something the Col had had enough and he came into the larger open office and tore him a new apex. The guy sat there with his typical arrogant look on his face. Finally the Col stopped. The guy leaned back in his chair and looked that Col in the eye and said: Col, I have been sitting at this desk for 24 years, I was here long before you were assigned to this post and I will be at the desk when you leave and I will be here if you ever come back and I don’t give a damn what you think of me!

When I was at Ft Hood, 45,000 active duty soldiers, 47,000 govt civilians. The govt is run by them, no matter who is in office or controls congress and with a union that is the most powerful in the world.

FYI: It states in the manual that “no one can be fired for being incompetent”.

Want to fix govt, then remove the govt union, NO UNION!


#11

You either get something done piecemeal with the health care law, or you will get nothing done and Obama Care will be law of the land. Obama Care Advocates WANT it to fail so that they will get single payer, which is socialized medicine - a government take over of the health care system. Once they get that, the “progressives” can decide who lives and who dies.

Anything that is going to get passed will have to cover the people with pre-existing conditions. The conservatives don’t like that, but they are going to have to swallow that pill and move on. If you do nothing, the “progressives” win. Therefore the refusal of the Freedom Caucus to support the bill at hand plays into the hands of the Democrats.

I agree with Trump. If you can’t pass anything, it’s time to move on and work on lowering taxes and border secuirty. If the Freedom Caucus can’t support that, then I guess they might well go over and become Deomcrats. They will be supporting the Democrat agenda anyway so why not make it official?


#12

Generally I agree, but there are some tough issues:

The GOP solution will fail and while there are many weaknesses pre existing is a big one. You can have STUPID written on your forehead and figure out that why pay for med insurance until I get sick, then drop it after the post op and repeat.

2 mo ago I had an operation, in hospital bit less than 24 hr total, ate 3 meals. Got the bill the other day, $48,xxx. Since this was NOT an emergency room visit and was planned around my schedule I could have signed on the med ins a few days before the operation and dropped the policy the day after.

While is no solution that will fix this, and attempt could be a waiting time of say 90 days unless its an emergency or something. Then you have to keep your ins for a time post sick, say a year or longer. Or something or pre exist cond will take it down.

Then there is the thing we learned day one in math class: All equations must balance, fi not its wrong…that said the Universal Coverage must be paid for with Universal Coverage…or YES we know you are a man, but you still must PAY for maternity medical. If you let them opt out: Ooops there goes 50% of the payers, the women will sign a statement stating that they have no intentions on having a baby, there goes another chunk of payers, the those over xd years are exempt and the beat goes on. If you want universal coverage then you must pay for universal coverage whether it applies or not!!!

You don’t think so? Ok fine, by not most will have received a property bill in the mail and most will have a line on it for “School Taxes”…I am in my 70’s and NEVER had any kids and YES I am sick and friggin tired of paying a LOT of money for you dummy you think is so cute to attend school, IMO you had him or her then YOU FOOT the damn bill…that I have been paying for about the past almost 50 years and have received nothing in return.

Point being I know that to have public schools some of my tax dollars have to go to you and your kids, that is the ONLY way it will work.

Single payer: Coming soon because the people will demand it, because over ½ half of them have STUPID written in bold on their forehead. Universal single payer medical care will make the VA look like the Mayo Clinic or MD Anderson. And YES the govt will decide whether or not you get treatment and life is a bitch then you die…


#13

The bill has been pulled. It’s probably game over for health care. Get ready for single payer because Obama Care is close to collapse. The idea behind the bill was turn a lot power over to the new conservative Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare to gut the core of Obama Care. But the ego trippers in the Freedom Caucus think they can get everything they want in one bill.

I hope the Freedom Caucus, Chuck Shumer and Nancy Pelosi can get together for dinner to celebrate their victory. That worthless clown, who calls himself a conservative, Glen Beck, will be celebrating too.

Let’s hope we can do better on lowering taxes and securing the border. If the Freedon Caucus is opposed to that we can say good bye to those proposals as well.


#14

I am not going to blame the Freedom C, I listened to Gomert last night on TV and he listed out their objections!!! YEA, I’m buying that, he was right IMO… Look who fumbled the football…RYAN, has he EVER scored a touchdown on anything???

But things might not be all bad, watch Obama care explode!


#15

I just want to see them repeal Obama Care and replace it with - nothing!


#16

Good idea, Susanna! I don’t recall millions of people dying in the streets before Medicare and Medicaid. If that had been happening I would most assuredly have known about it because my family was dirt-poor. In fact, the institution of Medicare and Medicaid coincides almost PERFECTLY with the beginning of the rapid rise in health-care costs, the cancellation of “home-visits” by the AMA and the skyrocketing of medication costs. The lesson is easy, but so often completely ignored: Anything the government subsidizes grows by leaps and bounds–medical costs, out-of-wedlock births, drug addiction, lotteries and public employee salaries and benefits.


#17

That’s been my view all along. While we’re at it let’s eliminate deductibility for employer-paid premiums. And perhaps require some posting of fee schedules for doctors the way lawyers and gas stations quote fees so there is a basis for competition.

For one thing I would like to use say last year’s experience of my family to determine if health insurance is a good deal or not. We had a fairly typical year. My wife had kidney stones blasted. I had a few ophthalmologist and skin lesion removals. My sons each had checkups. My younger son, on the autistic spectrum, receives some drug prescriptions. I woiuld like to add up all of these and see if they came anywhere near the $26,000 I paid in COBRA premiums. I doubt it did. Or would have had doctor pricing been transparent.

Do you mean “implode”?


#18

Ryan and his staff pooed the screwch, so badly one almost wonders if it was intentional. He and his peeps consulted no one, pulled that bill from their rectal cavities, and told Rs in the House that it was all or nothing, his way or the highway.

Whatever the shortcomings - everything human has shortcomings - status quo ante was far better than OhBummerCare. Step 1 should have been repealing that fiasco. Steps 2-X should be implementing things like Super-FSAs, cross-state portability, and such.


#19

I had the good fortune to have a running buddy who was and esteemed Doctor, he and I were close friends back in the 80 and 90’s. We often traveled together to various computer shows in the US as he was on the leading edge of moving the medical profession into the age of the electron. We spoke at length about healthcare and how you take care of a populace and not end up with govt/socialized med. He like myself and some of you, strongly believed that you are the one primarily responsible for your health. I feel the malaise of everyone is your “First Responder” except you, just another way of saying your are NOT responsible for your own, someone else is.

Obamacare and Ryan-care all revolves around giving FREE healthcare to those who are “poor” or about 90 million Americans. The latest $$$ numbers I saw just recently was the Medicaid now costs more than Medicare.

Folks that are poor and are by their own choosing will suck the medical system dry, they have the highest level of illness due to inactivity, drugs and lack of responsibility in life.

I see no scenario were we can provide public healthcare at a cost that will not break the US financially as it has done most other countries. The countries that have not gone broke have done so by cutting back on their other programs such and most often their military. In fact I blame the wave of socialism that has swept the world on the US and our stupidity in becoming the ‘cop on the beat’ for the world and working for FREE, leaving those who we will defend to put their $$$ elsewhere…social program, free medical.

The ONLY role I see for the Federal govt is catastrophic healthcare insurance. My belief is no one should go bankrupt or be forced to sell their home in order to pay medical bills. Simple program, as an add on to a the medical deduction of your paycheck. It only applies to catastrophic illness, cancers etc and kicks in after a certain threshold and illness.

Outside of that your healthcare is your responsibility…


#20

Actually individual state laws are the obstacle.