No Fly list and your rights to buy a gun


Lots of talk about not allowing people who are on the no fly list not being able to buy a gun.

At first I supported that, but after some thought I realized that there are many people on the list sho should not be, but MOST of all the ‘right to bear arms’ is NOT a right granted by the govt, so they cannot take it away. IN light of the Orlando killings, the fact the FBI and the govt had their eyes on the perp for years and did at best they dropped the ball.


This is a tough issue because like most government programs, the no fly list is poorly maintained and inaccurate. If we could pinpoint people who are violent extremists, a civil society is perfectly within its rights to deny them the right to purchase and bear arms. In a perfect world you don’t give weapons to criminals, terrorists and crazy people.

I think that Trump’s idea of having such a list, but providing a means of appeal is a start, but the whole thing needs a lot of refinement.


The problem I see is that we have a Govt way out of control, a POTUS that at BEST ignores the Constitution, same goes for the AG, Director of the IRS and John Roberts of the SCOTUS, now add in the F&F debacle of the ATF and I cannot trust the govt.

We have gun registration now as everytime you buy a gun unless you buy from a private citizen you undergo a FBI check. SUPPOSEDLY all the records are thrown away as soon as the check is made…yet the govt has no problem pulling up the records years later on some crazed shooter.

And you are right about the no fly list, no one even knowns how they get on it…I just wonder if at an earlier time in my career when I flew every week, almost 52 weeks a year both CONUS and OCONUS, racking up over 2 M air miles in about 6 years??? No doubt I would have!

Having said that lets talk about our 2nd Amendment. As I stated its NOT a Govt granted right, the Govt lacks the authority to take it away on a whim. Felons cannot buy guns, but its because they are felons, they have committed a crime.

How would you like finding out your were on a No Fly when you went to book a flight to vist you kids in Dallas over Thanksgiving. Worse is finding yourself on a No FLy, trying to get off is NOT easy.

If we allow the govt to take away our God Given rights as basic as defending ones self and family then we will never be safe again…classic slippery slope.


Taking away any American citizens rights without due process is best avoided.


…should NEVER be done.

Rights do not come from government - they come from Natural Law, or God, or whatever you choose to identify the Higher Power. The Constitution merely ENNUMERATES those rights.

The right to self-defense is the natural right of Man - a mark of a free being. Denial of the ability to defend one’s self or family or property, is the mark of a slave or serf.

This list is being used to muddle the question. Armed airline crews, and SWIFT, CAPITAL PUNISHMENT for would-be terrorists, would make such a list meaningless.


Exactly, the “No Fly” list is not compiled via Due Process and flying is not a Constitutional Right.

Congressmen have gotten on the No Fly List by mistake (or vengeance) and had a tough time getting off that list, imagine how hard it would be for an average citizen to get their name removed; and how long they would be deprived of their Rights while they fought the bureaucracy.

If you want to combat Terrorism then encourage every American to learn how to shoot and carry a gun with them at all times, if want more innocents slaughtered like cattle then create more gun laws that will only hinder those with the intention of obeying the laws.


[quote=“Sendgop, post:2, topic:48889”]
This is a tough issue because like most government programs, the no fly list is poorly maintained and inaccurate. If we could pinpoint people who are violent extremists, a civil society is perfectly within its rights to deny them the right to purchase and bear arms. In a perfect world you don’t give weapons to criminals, terrorists and crazy people.

I think that Trump’s idea of having such a list, but providing a means of appeal is a start, but the whole thing needs a lot of refinement.
[/quote]The ability to appeal a bureaucrat’s decision is not a sufficient justification for denying a guy his rights. Due process is necessary prior to depriving anyone’s rights.

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I think it really is. It boils down to liberty, which is one of the things the Constitution and government are supposed to protect. We don’t have a right to a ticket to fly, but we have a right to associate and conduct business with others, trade cash, goods or services for plane tickets and the right to move around via this method, just like we have a right to buy an ice cream bar. No one should be on that list without due process. The fact that that this so full of mistakes is evidence that the bureaucrats aren’t doing very good due diligence let alone providing the process due to an American citizen before depriving him of his liberty.


[quote=“Seravee, post:4, topic:48889”]
Taking away any American citizens rights without due process is best avoided.
[/quote]This sums it up quite nicely for me.

I do see the appeal of having a “no buy” list. My definition of a “no buy” list’s qualifications would be different than what we have.

It would be quite easy:

Are you a felon? Yes? Well then, no gun for you. No vote for you. No soup for you.


Let me start by declaring a fact - a very sad, but real fact. We have a corrupt government bureaucracy.

Second fact - It is not one’s constitutional right to fly. It is one’s constitutional right to bear arms.

A government bureaucrat should NEVER be given the power to place anyone on an exclusionary list that takes rights away from citizens without due process preceding the exclusion - bureaucrats, even if well intentioned, cannot be trusted to act apolitically/competently/reasonably. Within our government, more often than not, key positions are reserved for those who have performed political favors for the very powerful - in other words, our government is stocked with political hacks in key positions - Loretta Lynch and Eric Holder come quickly to mind.

Even when competent people are in place their decision making is often weighted down with issues involving conflict of interest and potential self-interest. For example, Clinton is being investigated by the FBI/Justice Department. The heads of both agencies are political appointees - with the FBI answerable to the Justice Dept/AG who is directly appointed by a president who wishes that the individual under investigation - Clinton - becomes the next POTUS.

Given that we have the most transparently non-transparent administration in history the chances of unbiased, apolitical decisions being made within the process is significantly reduced.

As an aside on Clinton - Some say the Clinton investigation is taking so long just to ensure it is thorough. That could be one explanation. However, another explanation more closely fits the on-going narrative of the Obama administration and that is to stonewall to the point they “run out the clock”. My guess is, no decision is made regarding indictment until AFTER she is elected POTUS - Obama will then pardon her on his way out of office. Either that, or after her election the Justice Dept simply refuses to indict her for a reason to be made up as they go along.

You would have never thought the IRS would be used as a political tool to bludgeon political opposition either, would you? Well, it was 4 years ago and no political or criminal price has been paid.

Like I said, we have a corrupt government - and it’s getting worse by the day.

And, at least half the voters don’t really give a damn.


One final thought.

Obama and all his little “punks” continually pronounce GITMO to be a recruitment tool for Islamic jihadists.

Obama has for years now declared his intention to close GITMO - he has been and is, releasing detainees at a rapid pace.

In spite of his commitment to close the facility and despite his obvious reliance on a MUCH SMALLER United States footprint/influence in the ME to “make nice” and to reduce the jihadist threat, radical Islamists have multiplied like rats and have spread their murderous activities and influence to one of a global scale.

Under the circumstances, I think any reasonable individual would conclude the most powerful recruitment tool over the last 8 years has been the limp-wristed, lead-from-behind and watch the Middle East implode policies of the Obama administration.


As to flying being a Right, it is not or I would owe the Queer Mafia an apology. The airlines are private entities who do not want their planes used as missiles or poltical/religious statements, that is why they support the no fly list and help create it; if flying is a Right then the airlines are in the same position as Bakers, Photographers and Printers who are all told that they have no Right to decide who they do business with and for what reasons.


This is why I now see peaceful secession by as many States as possible as the only viable option to correct our trajectory, it is simply buffoonery at this point to think we can vote our way back to the Principles that are mocked at every level of our government bureaucracy; a bureaucracy that can easily outlast multiple Administrations and multiple incarnations of Congress due to the depth of their corruption and lack of accountability.

Kalifornia Churches are now required to pay for elective abortions because the Obama Administration just decided that they were not protected by the Weldon Amendment, there will be no widespread refusal to buy this Insurance and withhold the tax penalty by the Church; they will simply accept the Judicial Tyranny and sacrifice their Faith.

It is time for the few States who still get it to begin a serious secession movement, if they do not then the Constitution and the ideas that are codified therein will be lost to history.


If this garbage goes through, I can see a lot of former military suddenly finding themselves on the no-fly list…


That’s part of the plan.

Interfere with Free Movement. Airlines…where Moslem TSA agents molest little girls and humiliate grandmothers. Highway travel, where now just carrying large amounts of CASH is considered a suspicious activity that involves confiscation of “possibly” criminally-related funds. Of course, as with cars or other property seized by police these days, that cash is not returned.

We are seeing the evil, sick genius of Alinsky, Ayers, Soros and the moral-bankruptcy of the undemocratic Democrat Party, turn us into a Police State. And there seems nothing to do. And no, I don’t think Mister Donald is going to have much effect, at least not to REVERSE any of this.


Why not release the list so we can decide if the folks on there should be able to get a gun?


One big problem is that there are often people with the same name as a person who might be legitimately on a no-fly list, and they get the same treatment. I don’t know how much detail about a person shows up on the no-fly list, but if it’s not enough to clearly identify the person in case of some one else with the same name, it’s worthless.


Why not release the names, determine if it’s security-oriented or politically motivated, and go from there?


No name should be on the list until it has been determined that it’s a security issue. And that they have enough info to isolate the name to the person it was intended for.


I have no problem with the list existing as long as no Constitutional Rights are removed as a result of being placed on the list, releasing the list would be utter buffoonery since it is and must be compiled without Due Process but the mistakes (if they become known) would most certainly cause harm to the people who are being “watched” for incorrect assumptions if the list were made public.

A year ago April I booked a flight to Oklahoma City to pick up a big rig I bought and drive it back to California, because of the things that I regularly write on this site and other venues I first checked to see if I was on the no fly list; I would not have been surprised if I had found my name.

I call our Judicial System corrupt from the Meter Maid to the Supreme Court regularly, I advocate for peaceful secession of States who still value the Constitution regularly, I call the President the “Terrorist In Chief” regularly and I ascribe the worst motives and criticisms possible to every facet of government except the Military; if only a keyword search was utilized where a human did not read everything in context it would be perfectly reasonable to think I deserved a closer look.

I know these things before I write every word and I accept whatever suspicion may be inspired as a result, I also expect any close examination of my life to ease those suspicions but in the meantime I completely understand how I could end up on a no fly list.